Not quite billy bob, anything that alters timing can have mileage effects (positive or negative), acetone and all the aeromatics do indeed affect timing. On my 98 Buick lesabre 3.8 3oz per 10gal acetone greatly improves my low rpm fuel flow rate and subsuquent mileage, higher RPMS end up with poorer efficiency and mileage using acetone. I have been looking for someone to dyno for my own purposes but for now scanguage suffices. I am up 4mpg average over 60 days and I drive the same crappy way (yes I had the scanguage before acetone) And I have kept mileage records for 7 yrs.
The HHO combustion cycle has been lab tested to first implode briefly then explode relatively slowly compared to other materials. This is not for debate as folks who are testing pure hydrogen in motors (not related to HHO) are finding the timeing needs to be set just prior to the cyclinder coming all the way to the top to achieve higher efficiency.
As for why this HHO BS works its simple. The folks that get the gains are able to burn more leanly without the excessive heat production due to the additional water and its heat absorbing properties in the cylinder, much like water injection without water in your intake.
Are you going to tell me that burning more leanly doesn't improve mileage?
Those that are really into HHO for engine leaning are being done a disservice by all the ideotic claims made in imagination land by scam artists trying to sell ebooks with public info that is normally free. Many have done real tests on their motors and HHO DOES decrease manifold temperatures in lean run conditions to a point; past that point she gets real hot real fast. The amount of HHO and timing are critical in determining how far you can safely go on a given motor.
I have a feeling you have never actually used or setup an HHO system. If you get one of the more efficient bubblers with a pulser circuit to drive the cell and size it appropriately to your engine using proper KOH electrolite then procede to lean the engine paying attention to manifold temperatures and obviously how the engine runs (a rough running engine is as bad as it sounds)
You will see a MPG improvement. How much depends on how much you are willing to risk there are some that drastically change their timing lean the crap out of it and have a limp biscuit that gets great mileage but hardly accelerates. (There is a Church group helping people to install HHO systems in their cars and trucks out in Lacross just to give you an idea how far this thing is spreading.)
You talk about anyone with any basic knowledge, I would think you can understand the above, there is no mystery to it. People love to exaggerate but it has been driven to ad nauseum. All workable HHO systems are just systems to allow you to more safely lean your engine, this IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! Also the manifold temps with and without HHO are easy to measure that is also not rocket science.
Build one that is efficient use one of the pulsing circuits to drive it use any of the freely available guides on the internet to determine what flow rate you need for your engine, put in a tuning circuit to lean your engine, add a little acetone to improve ignition and then report back.
If you can't get a MPG increase by leaning your engine I would think you some type of fool.
Now if you want to argue that leaning might be dangerous, shorten engine life, cause engine damage, reduce performance I would listen and believe you.
Those concerns are ones we are all waiting for the few that are really involved to determine. And until someone puts 100k miles plus on something using one of these systems (or fails to do so, more likely on the more hard core setups) we won't really know the real effects of one of the so called safer systems setup with lower manifold temps.
Do I believe aeromods are a waste, a resounding NO! They are more important than HHO and more effective usually. Do I believe HHO is a waste? That would be Depends, because there is so much miss information floating around unless you understand what you are trying to accomplish HHO can be a great experiment or a horrible lesson with welded pistons. But done correctly engine leaning with HHO does obviously work and you do not need to change how your vehicle looks on the outside though the gains are usually low (5%-20% diesel/gas) without extreme effort and risk, time and modification.
If you don't open your eyes and mind you will miss the most obvious things because someone who knows better than you leads you the wrong way.
Good Luck to all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmyster
Absolute and total made up imaginary BS. Every time someone with any bit of knowledge simply, easily, and quickly debunks this whole HHO sham, there comes out a new "theory" as to why it is beneficial and why the previous bit of scientific logic doesn't apply. First, it was that the combustion of hydrogen gives you energy. Then once that was proven to be a "perpetual motion" scam, it was alleged to be the "quality of combustion" that was enhanced. Then, as soon as it was suggested that complete combustion was achieved anyhow, now someone is saying that it beneficially delays the combustion event? Are you kidding me?
You absolutely want the combustion event to reach completion as close as TDC as possible. This is so that pressure will be maximized for the piston stroke at all possible points. The piston isn't moving quickly at this point, which gives you plenty of time to complete the combustion event. Delaying will give you the same pressure later, but reduce it early on. That's wasted work (pressure*change in volume) that you could have captured.
As long as the main event doesn't happen before TDC (knock) you're fine.
Yes, I took a two semester (six credit hour) course as a grad student on combustion analysis - specifically geared towards ICEs. I don't have that book handy right now, but whatev. Frickin salesmen making up science. It's as if they have stock in PVC pipe or something.
There's a guy over on the S-10 forums talking about how great of mileage he gets with HHO. His truck is ligher than mine, has 3.73 gears rather than 4.10s, fewer accessories, and a short cab. Same motor. Same trans. I was getting better mileage on a totally stock truck. He's spending his time gluing up PVC pipe and hacking his PCM electronics. I'm doing mods that actually work.
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