Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-13-2007, 06:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
igo
Master EcoModder
 
igo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 410

Mini Box Truck - '05 Scion Xb
90 day: 32.87 mpg (US)

It FITs - '09 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 36.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
what do you think of hydrogen mods (with video)

Ok, I have heard of this mod for a while now. I don't know all the details, but basically you make a concoction of chemicals that gives off hydrogen gas and is sucked up into the intake manifold. The creator of this video is claiming a 38% improvement in a escort and a 43% improvement in his Saturn.


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/v/YFGhZNxdyDY&rel=1[/YOUTUBE]

You can see the rest of his videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/sm0ky40


Last edited by igo; 12-13-2007 at 06:17 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-13-2007, 06:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
igo
Master EcoModder
 
igo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 410

Mini Box Truck - '05 Scion Xb
90 day: 32.87 mpg (US)

It FITs - '09 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 36.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Well, I can' figure the youtube import thing out. You can see the video here:



Edit: I did figure it out, but it should be made easier so an average internet user can do it without a problem.

Last edited by igo; 12-13-2007 at 06:19 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2007, 06:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 114 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
What problem did you have with the youtube thing? I borrowed a custom code to implement it, and I don't know if that code can be modified to fix the problem with the link structure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 07:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
igo -

(didn't look at the youtube, but I have seen others ...)

I have a hydrogen booster from http://hydrogen-boost.com/ . I have NOT gotten it to work in terms of increased MPG, but I have also not implemented the whole system, so my result is inconclusive. I have the hydrogen (Brown's Gas) generator installed, but I have not installed the fuel heater, or modified the MAP/MAF sensor. I have modified/augmented the 02 sensor with an EFIE (http://www.eagle-research.com/FAQ/FS/efiefaq.html).

I strongly encourage you to read this and other newsletters from this dude, because I think he is an honest broker :

Stressed Combustion and Hydrogen Boost
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/August%202007.html
Quote:
... Normally a vehicle is not operating under these stressed combustion conditions, except during engine warm-up. So during normal vehicle operation there are few times when the benefits of hydrogen assist can be taken advantage of. Hence my statement, “The complete system is required to expect considerable increase in mileage on your vehicle.” However if your hydrogen booster is installed on a work vehicle that often uses heavy throttle because of heavy loads or under other stressed combustion conditions, there may be a benefit to the hydrogen assist alone. For most people interested in good mileage there are seldom such conditions. Good mileage drivers typically drive slower, with smoother acceleration and deceleration, and keep their loads minimized. They combine trips to drive more when their engine is warm and drive in conditions when their engine performs efficiently. So is hydrogen assist a benefit to them or not? Can we create good mileage by creating operating conditions that normally cause stressed combustion? Yes we can and do with the Complete Hydrogen Boost system. ...
Here is my opinion on hydrogen generators :

1 - The ideal circumstance for these systems is diesel engines being used under "normal load" conditions. Since diesel likes lean burn, and hydrogen generators are trying to supplement engine power under lean-burn conditions, the two go together quite well. When I say "normal load", I mean normal operating conditions that do not necessarily emphasize saving fuel. For instance, a diesel engine at a work site needs to do "work", not save fuel. However, a hydrogen generator can help save fuel in this situation. Also, there is evidence that the hydrogen improves diesel emissions. If you google around, you will find that there are very $$ systems being marketed to truckers right now.

2 - The system will work with gasoline engines, but it is a very complicated proposition. You have to be savvy with all the other mods that go along with the hydrogen generator to make it work. For various reasons, I have not been willing/smart enough and/or had the time to make it work.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 10:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Peakster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Regina SK Canada
Posts: 407

Red Jeep Patriot - '07 Jeep Patriot
90 day: 25.14 mpg (US)

Beige Ford Ranger - '95 Ford Ranger XLE
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
If that's for real, that's pretty crazy. Driving at 70 MPH, my car can only dream about getting 45 MPG. Maybe I should message the director who made this video.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 03:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Peakster -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakster View Post
If that's for real, that's pretty crazy. Driving at 70 MPH, my car can only dream about getting 45 MPG. Maybe I should message the director who made this video.
Ok, I saw the video. That's only the hydrogen/oxygen generator and the water trap, not the other gizmos I was mentioning (EDIT below). If he's driving at 70 MPH, then he's not trying to be gentle on the pedal. I think that we would say that he needs a larger sample size. 32 miles is too short a distance to discount pump error. However, his claim seems to be overall MPG, not the youtube example.

Interesting. I never drove my car at 70 MPH with the hydrogen generator. Maybe I should fire it up again.

EDIT: I take that back, he is using another gizmo, an EFIE-equivalent, an oxygen sensor voltage modifier :

Oxygen Sensor Voltage Boost


I think he's one of us, .


CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society

Last edited by cfg83; 12-15-2007 at 03:16 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 09:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
igo
Master EcoModder
 
igo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 410

Mini Box Truck - '05 Scion Xb
90 day: 32.87 mpg (US)

It FITs - '09 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 36.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
The testing on the original video is questionable. But a 40% increase in mpg is pretty dramatic. I think it's pretty obvious that the hydrogen generator does show improvement if set up correctly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 11:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
ECO-Evolution
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,482

Iron Horse (retired) - '97 Iron horse Intrepid

Ninja - '08 Kawasaki 250R
90 day: 76.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 43 Times in 32 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
Peakster -



Ok, I saw the video. That's only the hydrogen/oxygen generator and the water trap, not the other gizmos I was mentioning (EDIT below). If he's driving at 70 MPH, then he's not trying to be gentle on the pedal. I think that we would say that he needs a larger sample size. 32 miles is too short a distance to discount pump error. However, his claim seems to be overall MPG, not the youtube example.

Interesting. I never drove my car at 70 MPH with the hydrogen generator. Maybe I should fire it up again.

EDIT: I take that back, he is using another gizmo, an EFIE-equivalent, an oxygen sensor voltage modifier :

Oxygen Sensor Voltage Boost


I think he's one of us, .


CarloSW2
I agree with Carlos there are too many problems with the protocol. Drive 32 miles one way fill up at a different pump. I've seen plenty of gaslogs with short fills that are 5-10 mpg better than normal and that's using the same pump to fill. I imagine any increase in FE came from the EFIE but with the test protocol there is no way to tell if there was any increase at all.
__________________
"Judge a person by their questions rather than their answers."

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 02:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Lazarus -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
I agree with Carlos there are too many problems with the protocol. Drive 32 miles one way fill up at a different pump. I've seen plenty of gaslogs with short fills that are 5-10 mpg better than normal and that's using the same pump to fill. I imagine any increase in FE came from the EFIE but with the test protocol there is no way to tell if there was any increase at all.
Yeah, the EFIE/02 spoof is something that I have always wondered about in terms of the hydrogen system. I *know* the EFIE works because I can see the A/F ratio go lean with my digital A/F gauge. The question is, where does the EFIE end and the hydrogen begin in terms of MPG gain? I just don't know. I think that the point of the hydrogen is to help the car's driveability under lean burn conditions.

I think that when the system is set up just right, you can set the EFIE even more lean while maintaining driveability. In that situation, the hydrogen generator would justify itself, so long as the MPG gain is greater than the MPG loss as a function of the Amperage draw from the hydrogen generator.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 02:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
ECO-Evolution
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,482

Iron Horse (retired) - '97 Iron horse Intrepid

Ninja - '08 Kawasaki 250R
90 day: 76.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 43 Times in 32 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
I think that when the system is set up just right, you can set the EFIE even more lean while maintaining driveability. In that situation, the hydrogen generator would justify itself, so long as the MPG gain is greater than the MPG loss as a function of the Amperage draw from the hydrogen generator.

CarloSW2
Have you had any reports on the emissions that is created when running lean? I wonder if the Nox goes through the roof or does the hydrogen do something to counteract that?

__________________
"Judge a person by their questions rather than their answers."

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com