Hydrogen Generator Experiment

[Christ]

They're going to rip you off.

Down below, we will see that the lowest quality of Industrial Hydrogen was sold for around $42 per K-tank (per pound) in 2003, which actually represents a fairly attractive pricing! (Note that meant that in 2003, the two pounds of Hydrogen necessary to have the same amount of chemical energy (126,000 Btus) as one gallon of gasoline would have involved TWO K-size tanks and cost around $85!) In 2006, the price was still about the same for a K-tank of compressed Hydrogen. This price is in a DELIVERED form, of standard high-pressure tanks, called K-size tanks, which is how one can buy one pound of Hydrogen gas at a time. However, in really large quantity, such as full (very high pressure) tanker truckloads, the recent price publicized is generally around $3 to $5 per CCF (hundred cubic feet) of Hydrogen, but that price is FOB, meaning that the cost of freight shipment in such a truck is added on. The point here is that there is an extremely wide range of possible costs for Hydrogen gas! Proponents of Hydrogen always cite the $3 to $5 per CCF, which means $6 to $10 per pound (200 cf) of compressed Hydrogen gas, or $12 to $20 for enough Hydrogen gas to contain the equal energy as one gallon of gasoline. But after the freight is added, and then the handling and storage charges of a local industrial warehouse, even under these BEST conditions, the final price of the Hydrogen to the customer seems certain to be at least $40 (for enough Hydrogen to equal the energy in one gallon of gasoline.) The promoters and salespeople never seem to mention this, but even if relatively few middlemen try to profit from handling the Hydrogen, it is hard to see why many vehicle owners would be willing to pay $40 or $85 to buy enough Hydrogen to replace a single gallon of gasoline.

From: Hydrogen as a Fuel for Automobiles and Other Vehicles

(Emphasis is mine.)

[Christ]

Why does the fuel economy of the vehicle in question matter?

[Nerys]

Huh?? are you serious?

if it needs more GAS to go then it will need more HYDROGEN to go.

OF COURSE a 5mpg car is going to SUCK DOWN hydrogen like there is no tomorrow.

My car uses 1/10th the amount of gas this car uses so it will also use 1/10th the amount of hydrogen.

I would think thats pretty damned important. :-)

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Nerys

Huh?? are you serious?

if it needs more GAS to go then it will need more HYDROGEN to go.

OF COURSE a 5mpg car is going to SUCK DOWN hydrogen like there is no tomorrow.

My car uses 1/10th the amount of gas this car uses so it will also use 1/10th the amount of hydrogen.

I would think thats pretty damned important. :-)

OK so how far and at what cost do you think you will be able to run on Hydrogen?????????????????????????????????????????

[Christ]

The tank has a water volume of 87 liters and is rated up to 3,600 psi. At 3,600 psi, the tank holds 590 SCF of hydrogen, which is equivalent to 1.4 gallons of gasoline. At 200 HP, this tank is emptied in about 5 minutes.


^^^ quoted from the link that orange4boy provided.

1.4 gallons of gasoline used to create 200 HP for 5 minutes equates to 15 gallons of gasoline necessary to make 200HP for an hour, or .075 gallons per HP/Hr. (the figure that really matters for efficiency of an engine) At 6 lbs per gallon, that figure breaks down to .012lbs per HP hour.

So it would take 590 cuft of hydrogen (which is equivalent to 1.4 gallons of fuel (energy equivalent) to create that same figure of .075 gallons per hour, at a cost of ~ 21 cents per cubic foot (2007 average), or a total volume cost of $123.90, compared to 1.4 gallons of liquid gasoline at approx $4.

That's what? Like 300 times the cost for the same output.

A K tank costs about $40 to fill, and contains about 1 pound of hydrogen.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Nerys

huh my local gas suppler quoted me $18 to fill a k tank with hydrogen.

If thats the case and your getting close to a 1lb of hydrogen I would buy all that they have.

[pgfpro]

Source: http://www.clean-air.org/H2%20Today%2019-12.pdf

Got hydrogen? The United States produces 9 million tons of hydrogen a year, mostly by reformatting natural gas. That’s enough to fuel 34 million cars. Unlike oxygen which is commonly used by hospitals and welders, hydrogen is not quite so readily available in small quantities. Your neighbors will certainly object to a 40’ hydrogen tube truck parked in your driveway. A simpler source of hydrogen for your Briggs & Stratton lawnmower experiments is to buy or rent a cylinder from a local welding supplier.
My last refill, which was actually a tank exchange, cost $49.47. A ‘K’ cylinder is 9 inches in diameter and 56 inches high. It holds 196 cubic feet of hydrogen at about 2600 psi. That’s roughly one pound of hydrogen gas. Now if a cubic foot of hydrogen is equal to 0.00246 equivalent gallons of gasoline, then a full cylinder holds 0.48 gallons worth of gas. In other words, my $49 would take my Toyota Corolla only about 15 miles.

[Christ]

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Christ

I think I could make my car run further on that dead horse then I could on ten "K" tanks of Hydrogen

[Christ]

Maybe if you used a gassifier... :P