Hydrogen Generator Experiment

[wolverine12]

I appreciate the comeback. Apparently not everyone is as interested. I thought this site was about getting the most efficiency out of a factory vehicle with the minimum of investments and sharing your results.
I didn't realize this would get such a heated response ("And then argue about the validity of the results of someone with zero history / credibility on the forum? Doesn't take a crystal ball to see where this is going")
I am not an engineer or scientist, just a backyard experimenter like most of you. I do not claim to know everything and I am not selling nor promoting any product.
I understand the skepticism but as with any of the mods on this site there will always be skeptics even after the mod has been proven to work. I do not force my views on anyone but I thought someone might be interested in hearing of an individuals experimenting with a new idea and what the results are whether positive or negative.
I have always promoted the idea of sharing results so that another individual can take those results and hopefully improve on them. Since I am using a factory vehicle with a rough investment of only $200 I saw this as an opportunity to follow that premise.
If this continues to be an issue then I will be glad to keep my experiments and my ideas to myself.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I appreciate the comeback. Apparently not everyone is as interested. I thought this site was about getting the most efficiency out of a factory vehicle with the minimum of investments and sharing your results.

This site is about efficiently getting the most bang for your buck, in terms of fuel usage. Minimum investments are nice, but not necessary. I remember reading somewhere here, that somebody spent almost $8000 getting his truck to go from 14 MPG to 28 MPG.

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I didn't realize this would get such a heated response ("And then argue about the validity of the results of someone with zero history / credibility on the forum? Doesn't take a crystal ball to see where this is going")
I am not an engineer or scientist, just a backyard experimenter like most of you. I do not claim to know everything and I am not selling nor promoting any product.

You should also take this other quote. It'd be nice to see someone actually posting results of such a mod - usually it's just claims. That alone should tell you to show us.

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I understand the skepticism but as with any of the mods on this site there will always be skeptics even after the mod has been proven to work. I do not force my views on anyone but I thought someone might be interested in hearing of an individuals experimenting with a new idea and what the results are whether positive or negative.

We seek to understand the idea behind what makes each mod work. That is worlds away from outright skepticism about whether something will work or not. Sometimes, that criticism will take a less than encouraging tone. Oh Well.

My big idea that I posted to this site (other than my curvy aerocap) is fitting a variable displacement mechanism to my V8 engine. However, that idea was roundly criticized by others here, and I had to put up with various comments could not even begin to be considered to be constructive in tone. Heck, some of the comments were of the nature that I should just give up the project and either get a different vehicle altogether or somehow shoehorn in a turbocharged smaller displacement powerplant. Did I whine? No. Did I give up on the idea? No. Right now, as I am able to do several home projects at once, I am slowly developing a practical way to overcome the chief obstacle to variable displacement, that I would be able to turn on and turn off at will as with a light switch. Once I get the mechanism working, I'll post the results here at this site. Even if the results show that my variable displacement idea does not work, I'll post them here. Not once did I take the tone here that I should just go take my ball and go home.

HHO has been tainted with the idea that one can somehow get more energy out of a car that one puts into it. Whether it is a fair or unfair idea is up for debate. What is certain, though, is that this HHO thing must be examined and must be able to stand on its own merits. Emotional arguments like yours do not fit into the scientific method, but the fortunate things is, is that you do not need to be an engineer or scientist in order to apply the scientific method to your chosen idea.

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I have always promoted the idea of sharing results so that another individual can take those results and hopefully improve on them. Since I am using a factory vehicle with a rough investment of only $200 I saw this as an opportunity to follow that premise.
If this continues to be an issue then I will be glad to keep my experiments and my ideas to myself.

Okay, I can live with that. You may always take your toys with you and go home. At least, that is what I am reading here from your tone. However, your withdrawal will come with the cost that HHO will further be associated with wild claims that cannot be backed up by facts.

If you feel so strongly about your own idea that you must become defensive to a bunch of strangers who trying to understand how your idea works, then maybe you should try to examine what it is that we're saying, and why we're saying it? And maybe you should actually get your HHO mechanism up and running, and post results?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I appreciate the comeback. Apparently not everyone is as interested. I thought this site was about getting the most efficiency out of a factory vehicle with the minimum of investments and sharing your results.
I didn't realize this would get such a heated response ("And then argue about the validity of the results of someone with zero history / credibility on the forum? Doesn't take a crystal ball to see where this is going")
I am not an engineer or scientist, just a backyard experimenter like most of you. I do not claim to know everything and I am not selling nor promoting any product.

Lets keep it that way, no selling thats why some people here are ticked.

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I understand the skepticism but as with any of the mods on this site there will always be skeptics even after the mod has been proven to work. I do not force my views on anyone but I thought someone might be interested in hearing of an individuals experimenting with a new idea and what the results are whether positive or negative.
I have always promoted the idea of sharing results so that another individual can take those results and hopefully improve on them. Since I am using a factory vehicle with a rough investment of only $200 I saw this as an opportunity to follow that premise.

Go ahead no one here will stop you but they might question you. A few of us are interested in the results, failure or sucess. (oh and best not to really mention what system you are using unless asked in private)

Originally Posted by wolverine12

If this continues to be an issue then I will be glad to keep my experiments and my ideas to myself.

Nah don't do that, just remember though follow protocall if you can figure a way of driving the same route day in and day out in a log for a daily driver, calculate your mileage over a full tank then repeat for the schenarios I provided, no one here is likely to wine too much.

And I would strongly recommend you input a good base log of fuel economy for the vehicle without mods so we can see how you are driving and how your fuel economy averages now in the real world.

You might be told it doesn't prove anything though even after that though by a few, don't worry much about it.

My father is a diabetic with gum disease, his dentist said he would have to come in every 3 months or more to have scaling, after a couple years my father started brushing his teeth with Master Miracle gel and soap (Miracle II) and didn't go back to the dentist for over a year. The dentist said his teeth were much better shape and his numbers were improved to normal, he said he could probably come in less often like every 6 months instead of 3 months. My father told him it had been over a year so he would come in less often.

The dentist didn't much like that but asked him what type of products or techniques he had been using on his teeth as he had never seen a diabetic heal gum disease. My father told him and then the dentist was not very happy at all and said that was snake oil.

What I have learned over the years is that placebo or not doesn't matter much if you get the results you need. Many people won't accept something unless someone with a great deal of power and respect in a field says its so, sometimes you need to find your own truth and learn what does and does not work for you.

Just don't oversell it, don't lie and don't expect anyone to like it (but a few will, failure or success will add more data points)

Cheers
Ryan

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by wolverine12

I am not an engineer or scientist, just a backyard experimenter like most of you.

By all means, do experiment - well, as long as it's safe

A longer-term fuel record will indeed add credibility, as everyone can see where you're coming from before the mod, and where you've gotten to after the mod.
Variations in real-life driving are such that averages can really only be spotted over longer time and distance.

It's one thing to test a mod and claim it returns X % better mileage.
It's quite another thing to see the results showing in a fuel log.

[wolverine12]

Thanks for the encouragement. I am very excited to find out the results myself but I am really not expecting to see alot of improvement. Since I have built this device myself I will defintely not mention a certain product. As far as creating a fuel log, this is very easy. I drive 1200 miles every week along the same route so my numbers are very consistant and with that many miles the average mpg is very accurate. I have been keeping track of my mileage every week since I purchased the Fiesta the day after Thanksgiving. I can tell you that a K&N air filter alone improved my performance from 39.8mpg to 41.3mpg along the same route every week. I will begin a new log as soon as the installation is complete to include three 1200 mile tests. These will include no HHO or EFIE, EFIE installation only, and full EFIE/HHO booster activated.

[gone-ot]

...just as adults shouldn't "...contribute to the delinquency of minors..."

...likewise, ecomodders shouldn't "...contribute to the delinquency of pseudo-sciencers..."
















...but, we can occassionally have a good laugh at their expense!

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...just as adults shouldn't "...contribute to the delinquency of minors..."
..likewise, ecomodders shouldn't "...contribute to the delinquency of pseudo-sciencers..."
...but, we can occassionally have a good laugh at their expense!

Sometimes people need to learn something for themselves in a safe and neutral environment, I first learned calc the hard way then had to prove how to use the easy way.

Also an EFIE isn't really psuido science, lean burn under specific conditions like steady state driving can indeed improve FE.

Having someone do the legwork legitimately on an EFIE without HHO via a fuel log would be a nice comparison to the HHO.

I only know of one guy that has done his own DIY lean burn ECU on this board but sadly he doesn't explain much in how to rewrite your ECU.

Ah well, we will see if this one is consistant enough to give a good fuel log over the next year and then a good EFIE fuel log then a good EFIE HHO fuel log.

It takes time and patience to prove the truth the right way.

[gone-ot]

...burning hydrogen & gasoline in an ICE is -- at least in my mind -- far removed from the 'in-car' HH0 generation and subsequent combustion in an ICE.

...the former is proven practicality, the later is un-proven impracticality.

...just one man's opinion, and we both know what opinions are worth(less).

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...burning hydrogen & gasoline in an ICE is -- at least in my mind -- far removed from the 'in-car' HH0 generation and subsequent combustion in an ICE.

But an EFIE is neither of those and worth testing with or without hydrogen.

I would be far more likely to try lean burn (EFIE) than HHO though.

[gone-ot]

...HCCI is the 'next' technology following todays' Direct Injection (DI).

...and HCCI is 'lean burn' to the max.