I.C.E./B.E.V price parity today?

[redpoint5]

Aren't evaporated hydrocarbons burnt off by sunlight fairly quickly?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Aren't evaporated hydrocarbons burnt off by sunlight fairly quickly?

Hydrocarbons react with NOx and sunlight to create ground level ozone - AKA smog.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Motorcycles have EVAP systems today but they are primitive. In the USA motorcycles are allowed to leak 2 grams of hydrocarbons per day. A Honda Accord with the 1.5L engine produces 0.05 grams HC per mile. So a motorcycle can leak as much HC as driving an Accord 40 miles every day.

I don't remember the exact emission limits in my country, but motorcycles have been at least one step behind automobiles now.

Carbureted motorcycles are much worse than EFI motorcycles because the float bowl is open to the air.

AFAIK only a handful of Chinese motorcycles are still fitted with carburettors in Brazil, but they must comply to the same standards applied to the ones with EFI.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I don't remember the exact emission limits in my country, but motorcycles have been at least one step behind automobiles now.

Motorcycles are way behind cars in the USA. 2020 motorcycles are allowed to pollute more than cars from 1995.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

AFAIK only a handful of Chinese motorcycles are still fitted with carburettors in Brazil, but they must comply to the same standards applied to the ones with EFI.

Only a few motorcycle in the USA still have carbs but lots of scooter still do. Our emission regulations are loose enough that carbed bikes can still pass.

Some examples of Carb vs EFI:

2020 Yamaha TW200 - 1.5 grams HC per day
2020 Yamaha WR250 - 0.1 grams HC per day

All of our emission certifications are public:
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php#6

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Only a few motorcycle in the USA still have carbs but lots of scooter still do.

Surprisingly, when Suzuki retreated from the 125 to 150cc segment in Brazil, even though its models were already fitted with EFI, the replacements from HaoJue are mostly carburettor-fed, even though the Suzuki ones were actually also made by HaoJue.

[Snax]

So a little fuel on the fire / convolution here: Cost of ownership is highly dependent upon cost of fuel.

Gas prices are historically relatively volatile. I don't believe that we can really safely make any assumptions about stability over a 10 year period. Electricity pricing by contrast is tightly regulated with minimal fluctuations. Moreover, the cost of electricity is also source dependent, whether people choose to subsidize green power grid alternatives or employ solar panels on their homes, there can still be substantial if stable variance between consumers, but it tends to be relatively constant for any given area.

For me, I will be an additional $1200 ahead at the end of 10 years if my PV array is entered into the equation after accounting for out of pocket expense for the array and net production over that same period.

Obviously it's not so simple as that for countless drivers, lacking solar arrays of their own or options to reduce their energy costs, but that brings me to another huge point for many EV owners: Never having to stop for gas. (My i3 is actually a range extended hybrid, but using gasoline is 100% optional.)

Because I very rarely travel outside my EV range, not only can I be assured of having full range every time I leave the house with charging at home, I never have to go out of my way or wait in line for fuel or spend time waiting for an attendant (yippee for anti-self serve law in Oregon).

[freebeard]

For me, I will be an additional $1200 ahead at the end of 10 years if my PV array is entered into the equation after accounting for out of pocket expense for the array and net production over that same period.

That's $120/year?

I used to tell people that a house that costs what an American home goes for should shelter and feed you and put money in your pocket. I haven't got there myself ....yet.

But the integration of an electric vehicle, solar panels and a (PowerWall™) battery bank goes a long way toward that. The robot gardener would be a free roaming hexapod (robot chicken) that pokes weeds back into the ground while they are still little green shoots.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Snax

So a little fuel on the fire / convolution here: Cost of ownership is highly dependent upon cost of fuel.

Gas prices are historically relatively volatile. I don't believe that we can really safely make any assumptions about stability over a 10 year period. Electricity pricing by contrast is tightly regulated with minimal fluctuations. Moreover, the cost of electricity is also source dependent, whether people choose to subsidize green power grid alternatives or employ solar panels on their homes, there can still be substantial if stable variance between consumers, but it tends to be relatively constant for any given area.

For me, I will be an additional $1200 ahead at the end of 10 years if my PV array is entered into the equation after accounting for out of pocket expense for the array and net production over that same period.

Obviously it's not so simple as that for countless drivers, lacking solar arrays of their own or options to reduce their energy costs, but that brings me to another huge point for many EV owners: Never having to stop for gas. (My i3 is actually a range extended hybrid, but using gasoline is 100% optional.)

Because I very rarely travel outside my EV range, not only can I be assured of having full range every time I leave the house with charging at home, I never have to go out of my way or wait in line for fuel or spend time waiting for an attendant (yippee for anti-self serve law in Oregon).

I just heavily negotiated and heavily subsidized a solar array for my home, and it only covers it's own cost after 10 years. How is your's producing $1,200 excess? Mine doesn't even produce in total $120 a month at my $0.11/kWh rate, let alone have the headroom to charge an EV.

$120 of electricity a month at my rate represents about 4,000 EV miles, or 133 miles a day.

Any excess I produce in 1 year is donated, so there's incentive to size the solar array smaller than annual consumption, or at least equal to.

[Snax]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I just heavily negotiated and heavily subsidized a solar array for my home, and it only covers it's own cost after 10 years. How is your's producing $1,200 excess?

It is based on the last 2.5 years of production at just over 10MWh vs. the tax subsidized out of pocket expense. I got in on the last year of the Oregon state subsidy as a big part of that in addition to the full 30% federal credit.

[Frank]

No accounting for the cost of pollution?