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Old 05-24-2020, 01:08 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Even if it may seem negligible to have some evaporative emissions control on a Diesel vehicle, it's always good to prevent water contamination which may lead to algae and bacteria growth while sitting idle for a relatively long time.


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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Motorcycles have particularly bad evaporative emissions - even new ones.
It used to be a more critical issue, but nowadays most resort to a charcoal canister just like cars have been doing for a long time.

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Old 05-24-2020, 11:43 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
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It used to be a more critical issue, but nowadays most resort to a charcoal canister just like cars have been doing for a long time.
Motorcycles have EVAP systems today but they are primitive. In the USA motorcycles are allowed to leak 2 grams of hydrocarbons per day. A Honda Accord with the 1.5L engine produces 0.05 grams HC per mile. So a motorcycle can leak as much HC as driving an Accord 40 miles every day. In a year, a motorcycle sitting in a garage not going anywhere pollutes as much as driving a Honda Accord 14,600 miles.

Carbureted motorcycles are much worse than EFI motorcycles because the float bowl is open to the air.
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:49 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Aren't evaporated hydrocarbons burnt off by sunlight fairly quickly?
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:11 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Aren't evaporated hydrocarbons burnt off by sunlight fairly quickly?
Hydrocarbons react with NOx and sunlight to create ground level ozone - AKA smog.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:51 PM   #55 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Motorcycles have EVAP systems today but they are primitive. In the USA motorcycles are allowed to leak 2 grams of hydrocarbons per day. A Honda Accord with the 1.5L engine produces 0.05 grams HC per mile. So a motorcycle can leak as much HC as driving an Accord 40 miles every day.
I don't remember the exact emission limits in my country, but motorcycles have been at least one step behind automobiles now.


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Carbureted motorcycles are much worse than EFI motorcycles because the float bowl is open to the air.
AFAIK only a handful of Chinese motorcycles are still fitted with carburettors in Brazil, but they must comply to the same standards applied to the ones with EFI.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:42 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I don't remember the exact emission limits in my country, but motorcycles have been at least one step behind automobiles now.
Motorcycles are way behind cars in the USA. 2020 motorcycles are allowed to pollute more than cars from 1995.


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AFAIK only a handful of Chinese motorcycles are still fitted with carburettors in Brazil, but they must comply to the same standards applied to the ones with EFI.
Only a few motorcycle in the USA still have carbs but lots of scooter still do. Our emission regulations are loose enough that carbed bikes can still pass.

Some examples of Carb vs EFI:

2020 Yamaha TW200 - 1.5 grams HC per day
2020 Yamaha WR250 - 0.1 grams HC per day

All of our emission certifications are public:
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php#6
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:18 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Only a few motorcycle in the USA still have carbs but lots of scooter still do.
Surprisingly, when Suzuki retreated from the 125 to 150cc segment in Brazil, even though its models were already fitted with EFI, the replacements from HaoJue are mostly carburettor-fed, even though the Suzuki ones were actually also made by HaoJue.
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Old 06-11-2020, 04:21 PM   #58 (permalink)
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So a little fuel on the fire / convolution here: Cost of ownership is highly dependent upon cost of fuel.

Gas prices are historically relatively volatile. I don't believe that we can really safely make any assumptions about stability over a 10 year period. Electricity pricing by contrast is tightly regulated with minimal fluctuations. Moreover, the cost of electricity is also source dependent, whether people choose to subsidize green power grid alternatives or employ solar panels on their homes, there can still be substantial if stable variance between consumers, but it tends to be relatively constant for any given area.

For me, I will be an additional $1200 ahead at the end of 10 years if my PV array is entered into the equation after accounting for out of pocket expense for the array and net production over that same period.

Obviously it's not so simple as that for countless drivers, lacking solar arrays of their own or options to reduce their energy costs, but that brings me to another huge point for many EV owners: Never having to stop for gas. (My i3 is actually a range extended hybrid, but using gasoline is 100% optional.)

Because I very rarely travel outside my EV range, not only can I be assured of having full range every time I leave the house with charging at home, I never have to go out of my way or wait in line for fuel or spend time waiting for an attendant (yippee for anti-self serve law in Oregon).
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Old 06-11-2020, 05:31 PM   #59 (permalink)
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For me, I will be an additional $1200 ahead at the end of 10 years if my PV array is entered into the equation after accounting for out of pocket expense for the array and net production over that same period.
That's $120/year?

I used to tell people that a house that costs what an American home goes for should shelter and feed you and put money in your pocket. I haven't got there myself ....yet.

But the integration of an electric vehicle, solar panels and a (PowerWall™) battery bank goes a long way toward that. The robot gardener would be a free roaming hexapod (robot chicken) that pokes weeds back into the ground while they are still little green shoots.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:55 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
So a little fuel on the fire / convolution here: Cost of ownership is highly dependent upon cost of fuel.

Gas prices are historically relatively volatile. I don't believe that we can really safely make any assumptions about stability over a 10 year period. Electricity pricing by contrast is tightly regulated with minimal fluctuations. Moreover, the cost of electricity is also source dependent, whether people choose to subsidize green power grid alternatives or employ solar panels on their homes, there can still be substantial if stable variance between consumers, but it tends to be relatively constant for any given area.

For me, I will be an additional $1200 ahead at the end of 10 years if my PV array is entered into the equation after accounting for out of pocket expense for the array and net production over that same period.

Obviously it's not so simple as that for countless drivers, lacking solar arrays of their own or options to reduce their energy costs, but that brings me to another huge point for many EV owners: Never having to stop for gas. (My i3 is actually a range extended hybrid, but using gasoline is 100% optional.)

Because I very rarely travel outside my EV range, not only can I be assured of having full range every time I leave the house with charging at home, I never have to go out of my way or wait in line for fuel or spend time waiting for an attendant (yippee for anti-self serve law in Oregon).
I just heavily negotiated and heavily subsidized a solar array for my home, and it only covers it's own cost after 10 years. How is your's producing $1,200 excess? Mine doesn't even produce in total $120 a month at my $0.11/kWh rate, let alone have the headroom to charge an EV.

$120 of electricity a month at my rate represents about 4,000 EV miles, or 133 miles a day.

Any excess I produce in 1 year is donated, so there's incentive to size the solar array smaller than annual consumption, or at least equal to.

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