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Old 04-07-2009, 12:36 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Do they give any instructions about cattle?

If not Avoid them at all costs. I live/lived in East TN for a long time

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Old 04-07-2009, 12:37 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Hypermiling (the way most people I know that do it) gives ample opportunity for those wanting to pass to do so. Rarely is there a time I can honestly say I killed more than 5 seconds of a tailgater - if that. I have no guilt for those tailgaters and other hypermiling detractors pulling for them - this is just projection....they would have wasted gas some other way and desperately trying to blame others to justify their bad driving.

Invariably, those that pass in anger fit the profile of those as determined to waste gas as many here that are trying to save it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:03 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiewt View Post
According to the driver's Ed classes in Maryland and the MSF basic rider's course, I am supposed to increase my following distance with the car in front if I am being tailgated. That give me and the tailgater a safety cushion.

Those classes also teach that a speed limit is a upper limit.
They have the same in CA... one of the most irritating conflicts on the motorcycle license test... how am I supposed to increase the distance between me and the car tailgating without speeding if I'm already going the speed limit?? And what if the driver of the car decides to keep tailgating up to triple digit speeds?? Never made sense to me...

I generally agree with what I've read here... on a 2-lane highway, I'll try to keep my speed within a few miles of the speed limit if cars are behind me... and I'll give them every opportunity to pass if they want to. On a multi-lane freeway, I'm much less worried about my speed ... there are a couple of long up-hill stretches where I get down to 40mph or lower... I always stick to the 'truck' lane (total of 3 lanes in my direction for this section of freeway) and turn on my flashers. Even so, I still get idjits that fly up behind me, jam on the brakes, and tailgate me... flashing their brights & occasionally even honking... while the other 2 lanes are wide open!!! I have absolutely no idea what it is they expect me to do. The only option I have is to ignore them.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:41 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NachtRitter View Post
They have the same in CA... one of the most irritating conflicts on the motorcycle license test... how am I supposed to increase the distance between me and the car tailgating without speeding if I'm already going the speed limit??
I think you have it backwards. You're supposed to increase the distance between the car in front of you and yourself by slowing down when tailgated, so in the event of an emergency you can brake/decelerate at a lower rate since the person behind you doesn't have crap for braking distances.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:42 AM   #35 (permalink)
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roflwaffle -

Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
I think you have it backwards. You're supposed to increase the distance between the car in front of you and yourself by slowing down when tailgated, so in the event of an emergency you can brake/decelerate at a lower rate since the person behind you doesn't have crap for braking distances.
Yup. This is one reason I follow the 3 (or 2) second rule :

http://www.beaconmutual.com/Documents/SA.07.04.01.pdf
Quote:
The National Safety Council recommends a
minimum three-second following distance for normal
driving circumstances. From the first recognition of
trouble ahead, to the driver’s reaction to that trouble,
three seconds pass. No matter the type of road or
the speed you’re traveling, this is the minimal
reaction time. Adverse weather or hazardous
driving conditions require an extra second, per
condition, to leave enough space between you and
the vehicle in front of you.

A collision into the rear of a vehicle is almost always
preventable. This type of collision usually occurs
when you are following too closely or are
inattentive to the driving at-hand. This is precisely
where the 3-Second Rule can help avoid an
unnecessary accident by providing a three-second
buffer zone between you and the vehicle ahead of
you.
Traffic School: The Three Second Rule - Traffic News Story - WCVB Boston
Quote:
The Massachusetts Safe Roads Alliance said that tailgating is the nation’s most common form of vehicular crash. They also claim that Massachusetts is first in the nation for tailgating crashes. That makes us the worst of the worst. We all know why – we all drive close enough to keep other drivers from cutting into our lane.

We disregard safety for the tiny amount of time we might save by keeping that other guy from cutting in front of us.

The National Safety Council recommends a minimum three-second following distance under normal driving circumstances. From the first sign of trouble to the time you have to react, three seconds pass. It doesn’t matter what kind of road or what your speed is, this is the minimal (yes, minimal) reaction time. If you’re driving in rain, snow or other some other inclement weather you need even more time.

Rear end collisions are almost always preventable. This kind of collision generally happens when you’re following too closely, and/or are not paying attention.

Here’s how the 3-second rule works:

· While driving pick out a sign or pole on the side of the road.
· When the vehicle in front of you passes it count off three seconds.
· The front of your vehicle should not reach the marker before you reach three.
· If you pass the marker before you reach the count of three, back off and try again.
Two-second rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
The two-second rule is a rule of thumb by which a driver may maintain a safe following distance at any speed. The rule is that a driver should ideally stay at least two seconds behind any vehicle that is directly in front of the driver's vehicle. It is intended for automobiles, although its general principle applies to other types of vehicles.

The two-second rule is useful as it works at any speed. It is equivalent to one vehicle-length for every 8 km/h (5 mph) of the current speed, but drivers can find it difficult to estimate the correct distance from the car in front, let alone to remember the stopping distances that are required for a given speed, or to compute the linear equation on the fly. The two-second rule gets around these problems, and provides a simple and common-sense way of improving road safety.

The practice has been shown to dramatically reduce risk of collision, and also the severity of an accident should an accident occur. It also helps to avoid tailgating and road rage for all drivers.

The risk of tailgating is largely caused by the accident avoidance time being much less than the driver reaction time. Driving instructors advocate that drivers always use the "2 second rule" regardless of speed or the type of road. During adverse weather or hazardous conditions, it is important to maintain an even greater distance of three or four seconds behind the vehicle in front of you.
The 3-Second Following Distance Rule | Driver's Ed Guru
Quote:
A new driver may wonder exactly how much distance to keep between their car and the car in front of them. Drivers must always be prepared for the car in front of them to stop, slow down, or encounter unexpected road debris.

Since road conditions and speed obviously play a factor, there is no perfect answer. Under normal driving conditions, a common tool used to determine a proper following distance is the 3-second rule.

How the 3-second rule works

The 3-second rule is a simple way to double-check that you are driving at a safe following distance. Choose a fixed point that is even with the car in front of you. For example, a road sign or a building. If you reach that same fixed point before you can count to three, then you are driving too close to the car in front of you and you need to fall back a bit.

The 3-Second Rule allows for a safe following distance when the road is dry and straight.

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Old 04-07-2009, 02:10 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm with Ptero and winkosmosis 100%. There's too much of an "I got mine" attitude around here. Who gave so many of you the "Jr. Traffic Enforcer" badge?

When traffic is light and I'm not impeding anyone, I will regularly drive under the speed limit by 5-10 MPH, but in heavy traffic I go with the flow. If you're driving so slowly that you think you need to put your hazard flashers on, you are a hazard -- is that a difficult concept?
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:11 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I used to hear about the 2 second rule, which I always thought was cutting it way too close. Something else I have heard quite a bit in recent years is 1 second for every 10 mph, which I think makes more sense. Sure you can only expect a small fraction of all drivers to actually use a safe distance when following, but at least you can do your part by making sure you can stop if the car in front of you comes to a dead stop (someone cuts them off, deer or bear runs out, etc. I just always think if the person ahead of me were to come to a dead stop right now unexpectedly, would I be REALLY be able to avoid hitting them, including reaction time and while driving on beat up Michigan roads? Go try it sometime on a desolate back road, preferably with a passenger and a stopwatch, and see how long it really takes you to stop when they say to do so.

Now I realize in cities this will probably never work, since someone always cuts into your safe stopping distance. Once reason I really don't like driving in the city and don't live near one.
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Last edited by wagonman76; 04-07-2009 at 02:16 PM..
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:32 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn D. View Post
I'm with Ptero and winkosmosis 100%. There's too much of an "I got mine" attitude around here. Who gave so many of you the "Jr. Traffic Enforcer" badge?

When traffic is light and I'm not impeding anyone, I will regularly drive under the speed limit by 5-10 MPH, but in heavy traffic I go with the flow. If you're driving so slowly that you think you need to put your hazard flashers on, you are a hazard -- is that a difficult concept?
Speed with 90% of the other drivers and their usual amount of (in)attention? I'm not trying to make anyone on the road drive like me, but there are definitely other drivers trying to make me drive like them....and it's generally performance cars or pickups, with hints some are not sober (or at least levelheaded).

Wonder why traffic and road rage has gone up the past 10-20 years? People are driving worse, so why are you endorsing that as "better?"

Last edited by Chuck.; 04-07-2009 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:48 PM   #39 (permalink)
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If I was ever tempted to use my hazard lights because of my slow speed, I'd add a big sign on the back: Thank you for joining my campaign to save gas.
Please enjoy the free draft but don't touch.

If someone is not passing, and flashing their lights, they are probably worried that you are drunk or asleep.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I have a bit of a different mentality and have been on both ends of this. You stay right unless passing, it's a law in our state. Stacking up more than 5 vehicles behind you is illegal.
Many times I have been traveling the highway and come up on a huge line of traffic lead by some in-attentive driver pacing a semi-truck in the fast lane at 10 under the speed limit. I have no tolerance for this and while I'm not going to weave back and forth like and idiot I will work my way to the front and pass. Sometimes you get the evil eye as you pass said slacker, but oh well. What if you detain this person and get them pulled over and they are having some sort of emergency, and you watch their passenger squirt out a baby on the side of the road or fall over dead?
I've also been on the opposite side of things, towing a car on a trailer behind my truck up a long grade. I do my best to make sure I don't linger in the fast lane and hold up a bunch of people, if they are speeding or not.
My latest outrage occured on a vacation last summer. Myself and several friends were going camping and taking a "spirited" drive over a mountain pass. Among our group were several high end cars, an Acura NSX, 94 Supra TT, Acura Type-R, Several engine swapped Civic's, and a couple of turbocharged 240SX's. Before you start applying your prejudice, keep in mind we're all 30+ years old with families homes and mortgages like everyone else, not 16 year olds who just saw fast and furious.
While we carved corners and generally had a good time, we weren't speeding excessively, sliding around, or endangering anyone.
Approaching the top of the pass, we caught up with a huge line of trucks campers and motorhomes all doing about 40mph in a 55 zone. We passed 2 "illegal to delay 5+ vehicles" and "use slow vehicle turnout" signs and not a single slacker moved over. For 12 miles we endured these slow speeds, stinky diesel fumes, and lethargic driving. Finally as we approached the last slow vehicle turnout(i'd call them a lane they are very long) and once again-no one pulled over-we used it ourselves to pass the group and sure enough, the fingers started flying and horns wailing...

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