I must be losing my mind. Some people need to grow up!

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Approaching the top of the pass, we caught up with a huge line of trucks campers and motorhomes all doing about 40mph in a 55 zone. We passed 2 "illegal to delay 5+ vehicles" and "use slow vehicle turnout" signs and not a single slacker moved over. For 12 miles we endured these slow speeds, stinky diesel fumes, and lethargic driving. Finally as we approached the last slow vehicle turnout(i'd call them a lane they are very long) and once again-no one pulled over-we used it ourselves to pass the group and sure enough, the fingers started flying and horns wailing...

People that rent RV's usually don't have a feel for the size of the thing, or its limitations. But somehow they do feel that they are the largest vehicle on the road and that makes them king. There should be a special licence for those things, including psycho tests.

Once someone was on my tail, flashing. I was doing 10-15 km/h over the speed limit, but he kept flashing, even though he had a lot of chances to pass. Finally I stopped in the middle of the road, thinking maybe there is something wrong with my car. I checked: lights are on, plates are there, nothing has fallen off, so I turn and ask him what is going on? Instead of answering he floors it and passes, barely missing me and almost getting into a head-on as he took off. I still have no idea what he was all about.

[Shawn D.]

Originally Posted by Shawn D.

I'm with Ptero and winkosmosis 100%. There's too much of an "I got mine" attitude around here. Who gave so many of you the "Jr. Traffic Enforcer" badge?

When traffic is light and I'm not impeding anyone, I will regularly drive under the speed limit by 5-10 MPH, but in heavy traffic I go with the flow. If you're driving so slowly that you think you need to put your hazard flashers on, you are a hazard -- is that a difficult concept?

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

Speed with 90% of the other drivers and their usual amount of (in)attention? I'm not trying to make anyone on the road drive like me, but there are definitely other drivers trying to make me drive like them....and it's generally performance cars or pickups, with hints some are not sober (or at least levelheaded).

Wonder why traffic and road rage has gone up the past 10-20 years? People are driving worse, so why are you endorsing that as "better?"

Wow, way to twist my words to portray me as saying that driving "worse" is "better."

Inattentive driving? Sure, that's a problem at ANY speed. I fail to understand how you're equating speeding with inattentiveness.

"Speed with 90% of the other drivers and their usual amount of (in)attention?" So, you think having a massive speed differential with "90% of the other drivers and their usual amount of (in)attention" is preferable? If they're driving 15 MPH over and you're driving 15 MPH under, that's a 30 MPH speed differential, which is far more dangerous than everyone driving 15 MPH over.

As to road rage, I think your assertion that speeding causes it is tenuous at best. Speeders aren't going to get enraged at other speeders, but someone who's driving way under the limit (hint).

[Chuck.]

Originally Posted by Shawn D.

Wow, way to twist my words to portray me as saying that driving "worse" is "better."

Why is it OK you twist the words of hypermiliers like myself, or anybody as long as they are not named Shawn D? I don't go try to make others on the road do as I do, stay in the right lane, give everybody ample opportunity to pass, yet you have a problem. While I make some concessions to traffic, generally I drive when it's not rush hour.

Originally Posted by Shawn D.

Inattentive driving? Sure, that's a problem at ANY speed. I fail to understand how you're equating speeding with inattentiveness.

I'm sure you are smarter than this remark....Atlanta is probably like Dallas with people going 10-15 over the posted limit...people exiting 1-2 car lengths off the freeway, occasionally jumping lanes, distracted, doing the left pass that nearly takes the paint off, etc, etc.

I can't coun't the number of hotheaded pickups that blast by me, then get bottlenecked 1-2 miles down the road as I glide by...they are not thinking, paying attention, maybe not sober.

One thing about hypermiling detractors is they don't recognize it requires MORE attention, not unlike riding a motorcycle. Furthermore, they likely never tried it.

Bottom line is it works for me and quite a few others I know of...the few hotheads that do the highbeams and horns are candidly from the worst drivers on the road. Hypermiling has not gotten me into a collision or ticket...can't say that of my driving more than three years ago.

Sorry, it's looking like you have an issue with hypermiling, as evidenced by your less than rational remarks.

[Shawn D.]

Sorry to disappoint you, Delta Flyer, but my remarks are not less than rational (speed differential is definitely more dangerous than speed itself), and I'll thank you in advance not to use weasel words to denigrate me or my statements.

I am not against hypermiling, but I do indeed have "an" issue with hypermiling -- it's hypermilers who do it in an unsafe manner, with the "all other drivers be damned" attitude. That is what gives hypermiling a bad name.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

They have the same in CA... one of the most irritating conflicts on the motorcycle license test... how am I supposed to increase the distance between me and the car tailgating without speeding if I'm already going the speed limit?? And what if the driver of the car decides to keep tailgating up to triple digit speeds?? Never made sense to me...

I generally agree with what I've read here... on a 2-lane highway, I'll try to keep my speed within a few miles of the speed limit if cars are behind me... and I'll give them every opportunity to pass if they want to. On a multi-lane freeway, I'm much less worried about my speed ... there are a couple of long up-hill stretches where I get down to 40mph or lower... I always stick to the 'truck' lane (total of 3 lanes in my direction for this section of freeway) and turn on my flashers. Even so, I still get idjits that fly up behind me, jam on the brakes, and tailgate me... flashing their brights & occasionally even honking... while the other 2 lanes are wide open!!! I have absolutely no idea what it is they expect me to do. The only option I have is to ignore them.

Specifically the bold section of this post, I think you've confused something in the training.

Noone EVER should tell you that you should increase the distance between yourself and the person behind you... that would require you speeding up, which is counter-intelligent to the situation. It would require you be placing yourself in a less safe position than you already were. What they're actually telling you: Slow Down. Increase the distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you, so that if the driver in front of you needs to make a quick maneuver, and you have to make a maneuver to avoid him, you have more time to do so safely, so that the driver behind you has more reaction time as well.

The idea behind it is basically to prevent a pileup in the occurrence that someone is going to get hit. All parties involved would rather say that noone got into an accident, but if anyone, better 2 cars than 3 or more.

Slowing down will allow you to react in a less abrupt manner, which just might give the a*hole behind you a better chance of avoiding a collision, even given his/her probable inattention to what's going on.

Chances are, when someone is tailgating, they're focusing on your tail lights, rather than 200-300 feet ahead of you, where they should be.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Shawn D.

Sorry to disappoint you, Delta Flyer, but my remarks are not less than rational (speed differential is definitely more dangerous than speed itself), and I'll thank you in advance not to use weasel words to denigrate me or my statements.

I am not against hypermiling, but I do indeed have "an" issue with hypermiling -- it's hypermilers who do it in an unsafe manner, with the "all other drivers be damned" attitude. That is what gives hypermiling a bad name.

I don't mean to join the argument or discussion, as it were, but I have only one question, which needs clarification: If speed differential is more dangerous than speed itself, why should we be the ones to sacrifice our modality to others, when part of hypermiling is teaching others the way toward better efficiency?

IOW - Why should I speed up, when you (subjective) could just as easily (or more easily, in terms of energy required to accelerate/decelerate) slow down?

I'm not advocating acting like an ass on the road, but I am saying that I shouldn't have to speed up (I do the speed limit +/- 5 MPH unless circumstances/conditions don't allow for it.) to make someone else feel comfortable at their (higher) speed.

[MazdaMatt]

Speed limit is the legal maximum speed at which we are allowed to drive. I consider the person behind me lucky if they want to drive faster and I allow them. I also consider them lucky if they are stuck behind me saving gas I consider them an a-hole, inconsiderate and dangerous if they talegate, beep, flash and don't just pass me. I get that a couple times/week.

[Chuck.]

Originally Posted by Shawn D.

Sorry to disappoint you, Delta Flyer, but my remarks are not less than rational (speed differential is definitely more dangerous than speed itself), and I'll thank you in advance not to use weasel words to denigrate me or my statements.

I am not against hypermiling, but I do indeed have "an" issue with hypermiling -- it's hypermilers who do it in an unsafe manner, with the "all other drivers be damned" attitude. That is what gives hypermiling a bad name.

Shawn D - (link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/070908dnmethypermiling.35fa7769.html ) read this account of a Dallas Morning News reporter riding with me 25 miles to work last summer and read what he had to say. Go ahead, and quote the times I was driving dangerously, or in contempt of the other traffic. The freeway I was on is posted at 60 - I was going 50. Could you explain why going 50 is legal, but 70-75 is not? Since you have asserted you are rational and dispassionate, I'm sure you can get out of that pickle, not to mention many big trucks are also going 50.

Again, read the article and find where the reporter thought I put his life in danger or thought my driving was shooting a birdie to the other drivers. If you can't find it, then explain why you would want to continue to say I do those things.

[elhigh]

Well, I had some bon mots of my own but Shawn and Delta have turned it into a shouting match.

Anyway here goes:

Mostly I do my own speed and let other drivers contend with that on their own terms. I've found that it almost doesn't matter how fast or slow I go, I invariably catch up to someone, and get passed by someone else.

But on weekends She Who Must Be Obeyed and I sometimes like to go for a drive, and then we're proceeding at Warp Factor Mosey. At these times, any traffic I see approaching from astern will be given the utmost courtesy - I go back up to the posted speed limit, and look for the first safe turnoff so I can permit them to pass, and get back to my sightseeing.

On the commute, keeping a speed ~5mph less than the posted maximum usually gets me a tailgater or two, but they're almost always caught at the next traffic light...which turns green just as I approach. The jackrabbits take off, and I dawdle along in pursuit.

Regarding what I was seeing about the turnout lanes and it being illegal to hold up more than 5 vehicles behind a pokey rental RV, boy do I wish I saw signs like that in the Smokies. But there's no room for the turnout lanes. So I guess the RVs would just have to go over the side...of...the cliff.

Can I have that? Is that an option!?

[theunchosen]

Ok both of you need to calm down alot, Delta and Shawn.

Christ has a point. Its the side that the law takes. Whichever party is breaking the law automatically loses. If you are speeding and I turn out too soon for you to avoid me, its your fault. People abuse this idea. I've seen it happen. A friend of mine got hit by someone who was speeding when she turned out. Otherwise she would have had time to get to speed. She didn't. Thank God I was there and ratted the guy out on speeding(his skid marks were pretty damning evidence) otherwise I don't think the cop would have checked.

However I have another friend who goes unnamed who intentionally pulled out in front of a speeder just outside the normal range, to get his car repaired. Stupid I know, but he did it. Officer came ticketed the other guy insurance fixed his car.

If the people around you are breaking the law whatever happens as a result is there fault.

You can't cheat an honest man and if you don't do anything wrong you can't get in trouble.

Just because other people are driving aggressively doesn't mean you won't get a ticket and does mean you have a 50-50 shot of being responsible for any accidents. Otherwise you have a 0% chance for a ticket or higher insurance premiums.

And yes if everyone is breaking the speed limit I call and report the first one that passes me and then I inform them of every subsequent driver. After seeing 3-4 people pulled over in a few miles they stop it.