I want to get to the bottom of this ethanol killing my mpg

[dcb]

Dude? The land of rolling blackouts says "bring on all the EV"s?
Reality check.

[gone-ot]

...that's OK, because the next BIG solar flare-up is gonna "zap" the whole 'grid' and blow the biggest FUSE we've ever seen.

...then, horses and donkeys will come back into vogue fashion! Lot's of them will fit on the LA freeways with NO problems, except for the road apple accumulations.

[dcb]

teleman, electric cars are not exactly far fetched. And there are many efficiencies to be gained by doing the power generating at a single location (i.e. powerplant) vs countless smaller petrol engines.

The transmission lines do make a fair bit of heat overall but they are working on that too, i.e. high voltage DC.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by dcb

...transmission lines do make a fair bit of heat overall but they are working on that too, i.e. high voltage DC.

...with the world climatics going UPWARDS, not downwards toward absolute zero, ain't no way DC-energy is going to be "transmitted" by ANY wire -- even super-conducting wires -- with todays or tomorrows technologies.

...unless YOU know something my college textbooks didn't tell me.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...ain't no way DC-energy is going to be "transmitted" by ANY wire...

lol, you might want a new textbook
High-voltage direct current - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[gone-ot]

...interesting, but *I* would hesitate to walk, bicycle, or drive UNDER those lines for just the reasons Wiki quote (corona, insulation breakdowns, ozone problems,etc.).

...it's also instructive how nowhere is there a direct statement of AC-efficiency vs. DC-efficiency.

...sorta like comparing passing XX-watts through a transformer: AC is easy and about 85-98% efficient; but DC cannot be passed through a transformer. Of course, conversely, DC can be 'stored' but AC can't.

...and, either way, just about ANY voltage, AC or DC above 50V can and often is lethal...just two different ways to get zapped.

[dcb]

interesting, but nothing It's more efficient in many circumstances and it is in production.

[gone-ot]

...stepping back to the original subject for a moment: to use ethanol correctly, the engine compression ratio needs to be bumped UP to 12-16:1 (almost to diesel regimes) where its high octane rating can be exploited as a benefit...allowing greater HP from a much smaller displacement engine (like Diesels).

...although the MPG will never equal that of a similar sized gasoline engine due to almost 2:1 deficit of energy content and air-fuel ratio.

[SleeperRT]

I wasn't disagreeing with the electric car path, I think that path is a very viable option and would like to see us moving that direction. Power plants can be much more efficient, and we are gradually making huge advances there. I think the main problem with any path is providing a solution for everyone, both an immediate band-aid and a long-term solution. I personally think we need to immediately get off oil, for a multitude of reasons. But there are millions of cars on the road, and you can't tell people amidst a recession to buy a new car. But in the immediate future I definentily think we need a gas replacement that any car can be quickly setup to run. This gets us off oil.

Then all new cars go electric or whatever and people can move up as they can afford. The immediate band-aid is the only reason I like ethanol, etc, and only when it is made efficiently from algae, trash, etc (corn/soybeans are actually the worst). Plus we can have more than one option to satisfy the needs of everyone. A lot of people need large cargo haulers, etc. I don't really like electric, but completely agree it's one of the best things going, especially for urban commuters. I really got excited when they announced the hydrogen vehicles. And that only refers to the ORIGINAL idea for hydrogen where you put water in, you got water out. That would be amazing. But of course, they perverted that to the present "we will sell you the pressurized gas" method (that I hate).

[gone-ot]

...anybody wanna invest in the "new" HINDENBERG CAR COMPANY, to be managed by ex-GM and Chrysler people (wink,wink)???

...the logo could be a large silver derigible (with a Nazi swastika on the tail)!

P.S.--during President Jimmy Carter's rein, GM made a variable-compression ratio diesel engine that was used on their XM-1A (or B?) tank candidate, but it lost out to the Chrysler turbine-engined tank (jokingly: because the turbine could run on "peanut" oil)!