I want to get to the bottom of this ethanol killing my mpg

[TomEV]

Originally Posted by Nerys

I found ethanol free gas up in allentown.

How are the results? I'd love to try some plain gas for a routine tank. I found it one time on a drive through Utah, (with significantly better mpg) but because of the long drive at a fixed speed it is hard to make a good comparison to my typical highway/city mix.

I generally go to one gas station with my Prius (my gas guzzler) and get about 48 to 51 in the summer, and about 45 to 48 in the winter. Not as good as many here, but I tend to 'just drive it'. Ethanol at this station was about 8% (two random tests).

On occasion I have gone to the gas station across the street. With gas from that station the mileage seems to be variable, usually worse. I've never been able to get the ethanol test kit to work consistently at this station. Not sure why. Sometimes the line looks like about 10% ethanol, sometimes significantly more. But it isn't as clear and the result changes rapidly. Perhaps there is a technique in using the test kit that I am doing incorrectly... Perhaps a different additive mix that makes the tester inaccurate?

[Nerys]

The first round of tests were encouraging. alas most of them were census tanks IE virtually city driving :-) I am not working for the census anymore but lack the time or funds to go get more ethanol free gas. On the way home from geopalooza I will get some more if I have the cash since I will pass right by it but 3 days after geopoo I have Naram and that is an expensive trip.

you can go over my fuel log to see the tank by tank.

I got some joe gas and my FE dropped to 43mpg that tank. (not in the log yet) I am not able to get upwards of 50-52 on ethanol (I never did have this car in the summer till now) so I am itching to go to ethanol free and see if I can crack 60mpg.

the project as a whole is largely dead though I think. Come September it will be illegal for any gas station in PA to sell Ethanol Free gas and I had no volunteers and no data. No one is going to take the word of one person no matter how solid the data is.

I might get some interesting data from my Clubwagon though. 1680 miles each way to colorado and back. I should be able to get some E0 out in the midwest so we shall see what the tank to tank results net me.

[Dust]

If you will have an excess of ethanol and water, maybe you should look into water injection, or selling you leftover mix to someone who uses it. IF you used distilled water, it shouldn't be bad to inject back in. You can find wideband sensors online for $150up in price. It will tell you how the car is really running.

[Prophecy99]

Originally Posted by 93Cobra#2771

I have done a lengthy test of using Marine Spec TC-3 2 cycle oil. Mixed at 1 oz/5 gallon. There is a big thread on it here:

Been testing - LS1 Performance Information

Cliff Notes: Pretty much adding this helps fight against the core issues caused from using gas with ethanol.

I am surprised this method of adding Marine Spec TC-3 2 cycle oil. Mixed at 1 oz/5 gallon hasn't been thoroughly discussed here? am I missing a thread. This theory seems too good to be true especially for states that only have gas diluted with ethanol.

EDIT:http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-12697-40.html
Found this thread on ecomodder seems like it has been discussed to an extent but just not directly.
Still an interesting idea though.

[Nerys]

What core issue does this solve ? (I am curious)

my core issue is that my engines can not properly function with ethanol present so they become inefficient and burn way more fuel than needed.

I am not sure how adding oil (another fuel my engine can not properly burn) solves this?

if you mean phase separation that is a rather minor issue actually. most cars use recirculating fuel systems (squirts fuel back to the gas tank) so any separation will simply delay engine ignition for a few cranks as it gets some good gas as sucking up the water/ethanol on the bottom and remixes it with the rest of the fuel.

and contrary to the last post in the other thread its a contradiction in logic to say you can mod an engine to be more efficient on ethanol. this by definition is impossible.

the assumption is that the application of the word efficient is regarding the primary focus of this website. FUEL ECONOMY.

yes ethanol can allow you to generate more "POWER" efficiently (higher octane more compression is possible) but this "ALWAYS" results in more fuel usage and LOWER efficiency regarding miles per gallon for one simple reason. there is simple less ENERGY at your disposal per unit volume with ethanol. so the way you get more power is with an engine that lets you MORE FUEL FASTER.

Funny cars are a great example of this. they run on alcohol and generator GOBS of power. go ask them how quickly they suck down a gallon of fuel to do that :-)

The one thing I have not tried yet is to increase the spark strength since some of us think this is the source of the incompatibility or a large portion of it with ethanol. hotter spark less loss (you would still see the 4-5% loss from the lower energy content but not I hope the 20-30% losses I see)

alas ignitions are very "expensive" :-)

[Prophecy99]

did you read that thread? the first post explains the gist of it