I want to get to the bottom of this ethanol killing my mpg - Page 15 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

Lazarus · 01-20-2010, 11:46 PM

Nerys, If you have E85 around try mixing the blend up to 15-20%. I have found that the up 10% gas is at the bottom of the FE curve and some where between 15-20% if peaks and then start heading the other way. I've seen increases with 15% in the 4 bangers I was driving. As always your mileage may very.

Nerys · 01-21-2010, 01:35 AM

you keep saying "all sorts of work" and it seems it will be as simple as add some water stir drain water. Does not seem to be "all sorts of work" to me.

Replacing fuel pumps is all sorts of works and then an order of magnitude more.

Either way its easy enough to try to at least get to the bottom of whether its the ethanol or just something else.

Nerys · 01-21-2010, 01:36 AM

E85 costs even more than regular E10 around here :-) about 30 cents a gallon more. I get regular E10 for $2.54 a gallon its $2.82 a gallon for E85

Unforgiven · 01-21-2010, 11:19 PM

The never ending debate of ethanol... gotta love it (coughs and hacks up a hairball)

Personally, after my years of wrenching and trying to keep up on things after I quit wrenching, and my own experiences with nearly 30 different vehicle types (9 personal, rest are rentals) I have to say that the use of ethanol is not worth it. In one case, the single tank of ethanol fuel caused a then new 2006 Chevy Trailblazer to lose its fuel pump (E85 fuel) Please note that the owner's manual did claim this was a flex fuel vehicle, and as such, should have been happy with E85.... not!!

I feel for you on the issue of trying to find non-ethanol fuel in your area, and hope you are able to in the near future (if you have not done so already as I did not read thru all this thread...lol) Good luck!

Christ · 01-21-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

The never ending debate of ethanol... gotta love it (coughs and hacks up a hairball)

Personally, after my years of wrenching and trying to keep up on things after I quit wrenching, and my own experiences with nearly 30 different vehicle types (9 personal, rest are rentals) I have to say that the use of ethanol is not worth it. In one case, the single tank of ethanol fuel caused a then new 2006 Chevy Trailblazer to lose its fuel pump (E85 fuel) Please note that the owner's manual did claim this was a flex fuel vehicle, and as such, should have been happy with E85.... not!!

I feel for you on the issue of trying to find non-ethanol fuel in your area, and hope you are able to in the near future (if you have not done so already as I did not read thru all this thread...lol) Good luck!

A single tank causing a fuel pump loss on a vehicle that new is most likely going to be considered coincidence. If it were to continuously happen, like putting a new pump in, and losing it to E85 again, it might be something more.

For not, I'm not going to accept (personally) that ethanol caused that particular failure, although I do know that it happens.

Nerys · 01-21-2010, 11:32 PM

"usually" what happens is a NON flex vehicle gets some E10 that has a bit more E than E10 is supposed to. Kills fuel pumps "real" fast in older cars.

Even straight proper E10 kills fuel pumps over time. I am pretty well convinced the only reason this is not a "big news" problem is two fold.

#1 when it happens people never suspect the fuel
#2 people who have older cars tend to not keep them more than 4 or 5 years which is how long it can sometimes take to kill the pump. The new owner just assumes its part and parcel with buying a used car again never guesses its the fuel.

I drive a LOT more miles than most people so those time scales are accelerated for me a bit. I also keep my cars for quite a bit longer than 4 years or so.

I have replaced the fuel pump in every single gasoline powered vehicle I own since the introduction of ethanol except 2. The 74 Thing (which has never yet tasted ethanol) and my 94 Metro which I have only owned for 3 months.

The last one I replaced was the 92 Clubwagon's fuel pump (twice) this latest pump is ALREADY starting to make noise after 1 year of use. (in over a million miles of driving I have never "heard" my fuel pumps short of a tiny hard to hear whirrr on key turn sometimes. This one was PLAINLY audible in operation over the engine noise.

The new pump was silent for about 6 months but its now starting to make noise. Not as loud as the old pump but still I can hear it. I should not be able too. This tells me its likely going to fail on me in the next couple years like the past one did.

The other vehicles do not get driven enough for this to be as much a problem. We will see what happens with the metro. Though if I have my way its going to stop tasting ethanol pretty soon.

Nerys · 01-21-2010, 11:35 PM

I also think this is why not many other people notice the MPG issue.

#1 people tend NOT to keep any "real" records of there FE results.
#2 they chalk it up to "old car" must be normal.
#3 the "new" mpg listings from the feds just "happen" to coincide with the "lower" mpg figures people get with ethanol. so they assume it "must" be right.

all my vehicles now get (except the van) roughly what the EPA says they should get. Yet I have hundreds of thousands of miles of experience that says these FE results are "NOT" normal.

Christ · 01-21-2010, 11:39 PM

My only problem with the fuel pump issue is that myself, nor any of my friends, have encountered it.

I know it happens by anecdotal evidence, and I've seen accelerated wear from lack of lubrication, which gets blamed on ethanol (but could just as easily be water in the fuel), but I've never personally had a fuel pump go out on me as a result of ethanol, an nor have any of my friends.

Unforgiven · 01-21-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ

A single tank causing a fuel pump loss on a vehicle that new is most likely going to be considered coincidence. If it were to continuously happen, like putting a new pump in, and losing it to E85 again, it might be something more.

For not, I'm not going to accept (personally) that ethanol caused that particular failure, although I do know that it happens.

Heh, well at least you admit that part..." I do know that it happens. "
Aye, it does happen, and far more often than some automotive engineers wish to admit. Sadly it is just one of thousands of issues swept under the rug of silence.

Christ · 01-22-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Heh, well at least you admit that part..." I do know that it happens. "
Aye, it does happen, and far more often than some automotive engineers wish to admit. Sadly it is just one of thousands of issues swept under the rug of silence.

Well, I didn't want to make it personal at all, either, just point out that it is rather coincidental that it happened on the first tank of a flex fuel vehicle that is only 3-4 years old.

There is a favorable chance that something else happened as well, is all I meant by it, not that E85 couldn't have done it, just that it's equally attributable to something else.