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Old 02-01-2010, 10:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I remember the time I was driving in a strange city (Very Strange - SLS and the gas pedal on my '81 Celica felt different. It got somewhat better, and next time I had a chance to look, I saw that the pedal had fallen off, and I was using the mechanical lever it had been pressing on. It didn't warrant fixing.

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Old 02-01-2010, 11:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Christ -

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Hm. After reading that, it looks as though Toyota went to a bunch of trouble to redesign a piece of crap into a polished piece of crap with a different type of sensor.

What's so bad about using a standard pot-switch on the accelerator pedal, and forcing the ECU's programming to match that with the TB?

I just don't understand why car makers feel like things need to be complicated to work.
I think those bean counters had something to do with it, .

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Old 02-02-2010, 01:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Christ -



I think those bean counters had something to do with it, .

CarloSW2
That's the thing, though. You'd figure that naturally, to be cheap, it would have to be simple, right?

Exactly the opposite there.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Three stories on NPR on this:

Toyota President Stresses Safety Of Pedal Fix : NPR

Saving Face: Toyota's Sticky Problem : NPR

Toyota, NHTSA 'Should Have Been More Diligent' : NPR
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Good analysis of both pedals by a third party (impartial AFAIK). They took apart both and reviewed the flaws in the CTS pedal.

Why Toyota Must Replace Flawed CTS Gas Pedal With Superior Denso Pedal | The Truth About Cars
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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...and whats wrong with just using a damn cable?
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Drive by wire allows the manufacturers to control more things behind the scenes. This gives the benefits of improved emissions, and better mileage.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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...and whats wrong with just using a damn cable?
Complicated, expensive, emissions.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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...it's simple automotive economics (damn bean counters):

* 15% of $1 cable = 15˘

* 15% of $10 plastic assembly = $1.50

...remember, it's profit to them, not necessarily cost to you, that rules!
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Christ -

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Originally Posted by Christ View Post
That's the thing, though. You'd figure that naturally, to be cheap, it would have to be simple, right?

Exactly the opposite there.
Yeah, my Dad says *both* pedals are too complicated, and he's X-Nasa. But I also think his frame of reference is "traditional" pre drive-by-wire car design.

At this point it's a mystery to solve for me. There are so many questions :

- What is the history of the CTS pedal? There must be an evolution of design that moved through "the system" to end up where it is now. They have already changed the type of plastic to deal with the problem in pre-existing iterations, so *someone* must have concluded that it was "good enough" in it's current form.

- Are there other non-Toyota pedals that are similar in design?

- Is the pedal "more complicated" because it allows for reuse of other drivetrain parts? It could be more complicated so as to drive down the *overall* cost and/or complexity of the drivetrain.

- Was there a whistleblower trying to replace it?

- What are the manufacturing costs for the different pedals? I heard the Denso and CTS pedals are interchangeable, but maybe the Denso costs X% more. The fact that it's in 60% of the cars Toyota sells implies that they were achieving a huge economy of scale.

- What is the best pedal design out there, both "modern" (drive-by-wire) and traditional (i.e. throttle cable)?

- If the CTS pedal was designed by Japanese Toyota engineers, will they commit Seppuku to make up for their mistake?

CarloSW2

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