Import Tuner Magazine : Project Sipper ('92 Civic VX)

[BongoBennie]

elhigh..... If the goal of racing is winning, how do you win? one of the best ways is less time in the pits (efficiency), taking the fastest line (efficiency), not to mention the mechanicals, if you can lighten up parts, you go faster, etc.

If you switch your ecu, that is against federal law, many things people do are against federal law, no enforcement and the fact the states don't care (similar to pot) is why people do what the want. Switching to CF doors is not illegal, but the sellers will always say 'for off road use only' since you are removing the side impact bars, but they do not make the car any less road worthy.

As far as the fast vs efficient, more power with the same fuel consumption IS both.

This IS bench racing in a way.... or bench eco-ing, lol

I do like your spirit though and its you tough guys that I learn the most from...

.......
dmafanp...... from what I have found out (i think on this forum), weight is more of an issue when in city traffic, aero is more important at speed, and if you can't coast, that means you will save gas on the way back up, since just about every trip is a round trip.

........

Back to another D15Z question, I found this D-Series Specs but I can't decipher it, can I run NGV pistons for high compression?

I spend time on Honda Tech and other performance forums and while there are some smart guys out there. I have a hard time finding out stuff on this motor.

[dmafanp]

Honestly I think I understand the concept now with all the effort put into cutting weight and spending $$ 9000. It's to reach a higher top end speed in the shortest distance, I am new to cars and I took a ride in a Honda civic ex today !

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

3) "Engine efficiency" this is where the ecomodder's will say the racing performance crowd just want to burn more fuel to make more power and don't care how efficient the engine is. Not true at all!!! They both want the same thing... excellent BSFC numbers.
Engine weight plays a key role in all racing today. The best example is how the turbo charger and super charger racing engines today are down-sizing the engine to make the whole car lighter. There are mechanical advantages to running a smaller engine also. Small bore size just to name one, helps with detonation.

Next years F1 race cars is where Fast and Efficient are probably the best example of how these to words coincide. Major engine downsize with stringent fuel usage rules compare to 2013 rules.

Ehhhh...
Forced induction often does not result in a lighter engine. Often times they throw in heavy iron blocks which ruins any sort of weight saving. For example the iron block 3S-GTE weighs more than a 3.5L 2GR-FE (with a cam swap easily makes well over 300hp). Turbo/supercharger hardware can add 100 pounds to an engine that was only 250 pounds to begin with.

To get a high power/weight ratio engine you first want a small stroke, maximum possible revs, and then very high boost (hey what do you know, F1 is running the smallest possible stroke, as many rpms as the regulations allow, and when turbos are around, as much boost as possible). With the <1 bar boost that most cars have the turbo barely adds to the power/weight ratio of the powertrain, especially because of the increased torque which needs a stronger transmission.

Now you can nitpick and say certain setups such as a centrifugal supercharger are extremely light, but forced induction is typically going to lower the engine's thermal efficiency under load.

Anyhow my point is naturally aspirated engines are used in racing for a reason.

[slownugly]

Originally Posted by BongoBennie

........

Back to another D15Z question, I found this D-Series Specs but I can't decipher it, can I run NGV pistons for high compression?

I spend time on Honda Tech and other performance forums and while there are some smart guys out there. I have a hard time finding out stuff on this motor.

Do you mean converting it to cng? Ive never seen anyone play around with pistons in the z1 so if one did they would be a pioneer.

[BongoBennie]

E85 actually

[slownugly]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Now you can nitpick and say certain setups such as a centrifugal supercharger are extremely light, but forced induction is typically going to lower the engine's thermal efficiency under load.

Anyhow my point is naturally aspirated engines are used in racing for a reason.

Forced induction def has its place in racing as does n/a. The fastest vehicles on the planet cannot do it without forced induction. Different needs for different racing genres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VF0J...e_gdata_player

This video is fun. Anyone who has seen these cars in person will agree, they will put hair on your chest.

[slownugly]

Originally Posted by BongoBennie

E85 actually

Oh ok. I'm not familiar with the terminology on e85 I've never messed with it.

[BongoBennie]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Ehhhh...
Forced induction often does not result in a lighter engine. Often times they throw in heavy iron blocks which ruins any sort of weight saving. For example the iron block 3S-GTE weighs more than a 3.5L 2GR-FE (with a cam swap easily makes well over 300hp). Turbo/supercharger hardware can add 100 pounds to an engine that was only 250 pounds to begin with.

To get a high power/weight ratio engine you first want a small stroke, maximum possible revs, and then very high boost (hey what do you know, F1 is running the smallest possible stroke, as many rpms as the regulations allow, and when turbos are around, as much boost as possible). With the <1 bar boost that most cars have the turbo barely adds to the power/weight ratio of the powertrain, especially because of the increased torque which needs a stronger transmission.

Now you can nitpick and say certain setups such as a centrifugal supercharger are extremely light, but forced induction is typically going to lower the engine's thermal efficiency under load.

Anyhow my point is naturally aspirated engines are used in racing for a reason.

The idea of turbo engines being lighter is that you can use a much smaller engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqJs0mqH9M#t=143

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by BongoBennie

The idea of turbo engines being lighter is that you can use a much smaller engine.

I know that. However to make it worth the extra piping you have to run significant boost pressure, preferably at high rpm. The engine block may be smaller but the extra exhaust piping, intercooling, etc. will add weight back. A small 4 cylinder engine weighs barely over 200 pounds, so a 40-50 pound increase from a turbo kit is very significant.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by BongoBennie

So on the engine note..... I looked around, is there any good threads about building an engine for eco? like thin titanium rods, knife edged crank, lightweight short skirt pistons? 13:1 like compression, turbocharging with economy in mind, I did see the lean burn tuning..... on that note, is there anything about the D15Z that makes it suitable for lean burn use, or is it all in the tune?

If you look at the 1ZZ-FE development paper for example, you'll see that connecting rod mass does affect fuel economy on the order of ~0.5% for a ~10% increase. For the ultimate eco engine, you could have a low rev limit like a Prius (4000rpm), extremely thin titanium (you can go titanium MMC if that cash is really burning a hole in your pocket) or maraging steel rods or something that weigh 1/2 of stock (might not be able to go this light because of stiffness problems), extremely delicate and light pistons, knife edged crank, extremely weak valve springs, titanium valves, reduced deck clearance, 14:1 compression ratio with 280 degree intake cams that have very low lift. That would be like the dream efficiency engine, given a well sorted combustion chamber and direct injection and other goodies. Oh, multipoint laser ignition as Mazda is developing would help a little too, but you can't buy that.