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Old 08-25-2012, 12:13 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I didn't think he made any specific expectations, just looking for improvement. I thought this was his preferred road trip vehicle and had a miata as his daily driver

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Old 08-25-2012, 12:22 AM   #52 (permalink)
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There's this cool thing in math and science, where you perform a test, and fit the data to a certain type of function.

Is the effect of velocity on drag really exponential (i.e. some constant a to the x power: a^x)? Last time I checked, drag was calculated with relation to velocity squared (v^2).
I haven't come across this 'incremental' type of function. Last time I checked, drag was related to a coefficient, which is a constant, so that would just change the overall magnitude of any point on the graph (change of slope).

Also, the smaller the distance between the bottom of the car and the ground, the greater the aerodynamic effect. (This is something I think I have to start a thread on, because questions have been asked about this, and I have information that will help answer these questions, and help everyone make design decisions about their cars.) Yes 80 mph is unreasonable for good mpg. Could he still drastically increase his mpg through just mods? Yes. Higher speeds increase the effectiveness of aerodynamic modifications.

Should he slow down? - Yes
Should mcrews have gone verbal Jackie Chan on his Texan ass? - No
Should people with low posts be treated differently? - Not unless they belong with the unicorns.
Should some people try to improve their attitude when speaking to others? - lol what to you think?

If all you guys care about is being right, then you should at least speak intelligently, and not throw out a bunch of meaningless pseudomathphysicsgarbage.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:01 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Wow, this went off the rails, didn't it?

One of the more valuable members of this forum (not very active now) happened to have had a goal of "70 mpg @ 70 mph". He had his reasons for wanting to cruise "fast", and was extensively modding his car to help him achieve his goal, and sharing his mods & results with everyone.

I have no problem with offering suggestions to someone who doesn't want to reduce their cruising speed, or wants to drive a huge vehicle, even if I personally think it's wasteful and don't do either myself. I also have no problem with immediately pointing out that slowing down is the most obvious and effective solution - I guess it's all about approach. How about posting a speed/mpg chart to a similar engine/vehicle? Pointing out alternatives to the huge vehicle are valid too of course, done tactfully. (EG: smaller vehicle with a utility trailer for the rare times people move big stuff.)

This thread went off the rails and I think it reflects poorly on the site - wish I'd checked in sooner (was away for 3 days). Way too much attitude in this one.

I think we should be willing to offer constructive advice to anyone who signs up and asks. The noobs who are genuine about wanting to save fuel will consider our advice & implement what they can. I suspect most will probably disappear when they realize there is no magic bullet, only magic buckshot, and refusing to change behaviour severely limits their options.

But every once in a while someone new steps back and does a "big picture" re-evaluation of their energy consumption, and ends up making big changes (e.g. even trading for a more efficient vehicle, or going hog-wild on mods). Not going to happen when the member leaves after a welcome like this.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:51 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Maybe we will try this again.

A few of you didn't give me any benefit of the doubt and just jumped to conclusions.



I do realize that i will never get 50mpg at 80mph out of this vehicle. But i do believe i can make some big improvements.

The reason I asked about mods, as I stated before, this truck does 80% of its driving in cruise control. So in general i don't feel that driving style will really make a difference, though i do realize that slowing down WILL make a difference in total MPG.

I realize i was over exaggerating my safety concerns driving through Dallas, though i still feel that with all of the traffic going 80, 60-65 is still somewhat unsafe. The rest of the trip can be done at slower speeds with no concerns for safety.

I also like to design things for what they MIGHT need to do, for a margin of safety/error. So if i can get some improvements at 80 then it will trickle down to lower speeds.

Lastly, why i got this vehicle.

I bought used so I wasnt able to get a vehicle as exact as i was wanting.

I didnt really want the AWD system or some of the other features, but i got a pretty damn good deal and it fits all my needs.

Room for TWO great danes
space to carry full 4x8 sheets of plywood.
length for 10 foot 2x4 and 12 foot steel (though i need the back window open for this)
And strong enough to tow my miata to races when i want to take more than myself to one.
Less than $15k

All of this left me with basically two choices
the suburban/yukon xl or the excursion.

I heard lots of stories about how rough the excursion was on highway trips, and towing was only a partial need. towing the miata was likely to be just 2-3 times a year.

I will start a build thread soon with what can be done and what will get me the most bang for my buck.
Maybe i can get 20mpg at 80MPH, who knows.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #55 (permalink)
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One point on cruise control:

I don't know what terrain you typically drive in. If it's literally flat as a board, then cruise control is as good as it gets. But if you're regularly going through elevation changes, an attentive driver can beat cruise: "constant throttle" is more efficient than "constant speed", and the average speed of a trip with either technique will be close to the same.

My advice to you would be: 1) track your mileage (at fill-up time - meaning full fills for accuracy). You can't manage what you don't measure.

2) Aero mods, since this vehicle mostly lives on the freeway, and drives at high speed.

- Have you pulled the roof racks off yet?

- Youv'e got a hitch; if you're handy (suspect you are since you're schlepping steel & plywood around), a hitch-mounted boat tail would pay dividends. EG: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ibe-22780.html

There are many more. Some quick & easy, others more involved. I'm sure you've perused the other aero modification ideas in the tips list: 65+ Vehicle modifications for better fuel economy - EcoModder.com
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Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



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Old 08-29-2012, 11:29 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Not to mention in all of this that any pickup/SUV has no business running at or above 70-mph given their incredible propensity for rollover. The single reason to own one is to load it up and/or tow a fairly heavy to very heavy trailer . . where a reasonable maximum travel speed is 65-mph on an uncrowded US [designated] Highway (with the occasional state highway).

Buying one for the dogs is kinduva clue.

mccrews held the nail, and Frank Lee the hammer. I concur in all of the above. And will add that as to actual average road mph that:

the placement and time discipline around stops for rest, food & fuel is where the money is when contemplating the time & distance equation. Road speed is just a line item entry. Keeping some records will show any driver that a balance of what one can do to "control" the days travel is all encompassing. Only children prattle on about running 80 (gotta get there to clasp that TV remote and read the Jesusphone texts soon, soon, soon). Trip planning is about cost control. Acceleration events, and deceleration events, need to have a purpose and traffic density is not one of them!

Running anywhere within 2-mph of the highway upper speed limit is a guarantee of being trapped in the packs of morons out there who do not maintain safe distances from one another. That, alone, should show the un-wisdom of such a decision.

Still, and all, the OP should research tires. I would stay with stock sizing but look for longest life and best road-holding in the wet. This is crucial for a pickup. TIRE RACK has plenty to read up on. The MICHELIN LTX M/S is probably the best comparison model to start with.

Brake drag, alignment and steering wander are also crucial. Assume nothing is correct. GARLAND SAFETY LANE is for many years the best alignment shop in the Dallas area. Start there.

.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
2) Aero mods, since this vehicle mostly lives on the freeway, and drives at high speed.

- Have you pulled the roof racks off yet?

I'm sure you've perused the other aero modification ideas in the tips list: 65+ Vehicle modifications for better fuel economy - EcoModder.com
This.

Grille blocks can be invisible if you want to keep the vehicle looking stock, and so can belly pans. Both of those can make a significant improvement at high speed, where almost all of the fuel is used to push air out of the way.

PS: Don't expect to get the same mileage I'm getting - I drive 55 MPH on the highway. But aerodynamics is the key to mileage at high speed.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:33 PM   #58 (permalink)
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right now my order is:

Air up the tires
100k mile tuneups and stuff.
alignment
Grill blocking and front gap smoothing.

Mechanical to electric fan swap.

Above is stuff i will probably get done pretty quickly.

Below will take more time

After that i am looking at either a lower front dam or new bumper
then a belly pan.

Though a belly pan might be at the same time.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:52 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Increase size of existing front air dam, or add a larger air dam. Drop vehicle 2" to 4". Eliminate passenger side mirror.

I assume you are looking only for low hanging fruit. I will avoid the other issues; namely the other types of changes (e.e., speed reduction) - since that isn't what you asked.

Last edited by Beau; 08-29-2012 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:36 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrenk View Post
Yes 80 mph is unreasonable for good mpg. Could he still drastically increase his mpg through just mods? Yes. Higher speeds increase the effectiveness of aerodynamic modifications.
.
Really! I am willing to bet you that while hypothetically the statemant is true, the op will never make the nessecary mods, (nor drive correctly) to observe a DRAMATIC increase.
In reality, the answer is NO.
It's a 4x4! so it realisticly cant be lowered. He's not gonna buy LRR tires. Dang sure isnt goint to install a boattail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrenk View Post
Should he slow down? - Yes
Should mcrews have gone verbal Jackie Chan on his Texan ass? - No.
Please read post #54. If somebody comes in 'lying' and I factually know it- (driving the exact same roads) then he's going to get his ass called on it.
Nice thing about this site.....we treat all unicorns the same.
The problem w/ a bs-er is that they aren't going to listen because they got away with the bs.
Post #54 makes this pretty clear. To his credit he came back and owned up to his 'exagerations'. I admire his honesty.

But why would we want bs-ers on here claiming all kinds of crap and destrying the integrity of the site.
There are several other 'mpg type' sites where less emphasis is placed on facts and aba testing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrenk View Post
Should people with low posts be treated differently? - Not unless they belong with the unicorns.
.
The point about low posts was completely the opposite. LOW POSTERS should watch making generalizations that arent true about their 'noobie' observations about welcoming noobies. (that's the nice thing about posts, you can factually see who is greeting noobies) And none of you have. Not even to say welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrenk View Post
.
Should some people try to improve their attitude when speaking to others? - lol what to you think?.
I have a great attitude. check my 'thank you' ratio against total posts.

But if you come in with bs or lie. All bets are off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrenk View Post
If all you guys care about is being right, then you should at least speak intelligently, and not throw out a bunch of meaningless pseudomathphysicsgarbage.
What kind of logical, well thought out comment is that??????
iF ALL YOU GUYS CARE ABOUT IS BEING RIGHT....
we only care about being WRONG???????????
Of course we care about being right!
And we care about verifiable aba tested results.
And we care about saving gas.
And we care about not driving like idiots.
And we care.......etc, etc ,,etc.......

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ECO MODS PERFORMED:
First: ScangaugeII
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...eii-23306.html

Second: Grille Block
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-10912-2.html

Third: Full underbelly pan
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...q45-11402.html

Fourth: rear skirts and 30.4mpg on trip!
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post247938
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