inline driveshaft motor?

[droptail]

Originally Posted by bennelson

Netgain has some double-ended shafts specifically designed EXACTLY for adding in-line with a truck rear driveshaft.

They even have a black box (the EMIS) that connects to your OBDII that will control the motor added to an automatic transmission truck to make it into a hybrid.

Check out their motors and the EMIS at their web page:
TransWarP Motor Information

-Ben

Thats the scale and scope of application I was looking for.
Thanks

[droptail]

Originally Posted by almightybmw

there was a thread not too long ago, someone wanted to couple a motor to the front driveshaft of the 4WD transfer case. It would work just fine. Many enthusiasts have driven home as FWD trucks, so the strength and drive-ability is there. Your truck is 4WD, so that would work, but you'd be limited to 2WD from then on, not something I could give up. But you're from So-Cal? Do you use the 4WD for offroading?

Do you mean you wouldn't have much low speed torque? You could still have 4-wheel drive technically, albeit not effective at low speed, correct?

It looks like I have to drive it rearward through the transfer case in order to benefit from the gearing advantage for low speed torque. Yes, I would be giving up my 4-wheel drive capabilities (which you are right, I don't use).

Thanks for input.

[droptail]

Originally Posted by Ryland

do some checking on the Future Truck Competition, some of the teams that have won did motors inline with the drive shaft, a team from Madison WI a few years back got 55mpg out of a Ford Explorer and the rules of of the competition give you more points for using off the shelf parts instead of custom made parts.

I wonder if there is room to do a chain drive between the motor and the drive shaft.

Will do, thanks!

Packaging inline for the full size truck isn't so much of an issue. Wether or not they could be effective without any gearing beyond a differentail, and survive inline a drive shaft was.

[droptail]

Originally Posted by bluetwo

I'm surprised on one mentioned Mikes Insight with the fifth wheel.

Mikes Insight - MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist

It's written so anyone can understand it so be patient. There's a LOT of good info there. Check out the link below too while you're at it.... in fact you might want to read it first.

E-wheel for any vehicle - MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist

At this point I am only interested in pursuing the inline drive shaft applications afforded by a 4-wheel drive.

Thanks

[droptail]

Originally Posted by Clev

I'd say this is pretty much what you're looking at. He has a full-size Chevy truck, so the motor would probably clear the bed (or at worst, maybe he'd have to put a little hump in the bed over the motor), and beyond that, it's a question of turning the driveshaft into two driveshafts with the motor between and the various ends hung so they're at the correct angles.

As far as freewheeling the motor when it's not being used, I remember from the EVDL that there's no problem doing this as long as you don't overspeed it. You can check with Jim Husted on the EVDL, but I'm pretty sure that the shafts on the ADC can handle the torque from the engine.

Again, thats what I'm looking for as far as strength and free-wheeling, thanks.

Your reference incorporates a bed mount with chain drive I believe? There is room for a straight inline driveshaft install. I am concerned about allowing to move with the suspension, verses a rigid frame mount.

[Christ]

You'll end up having to mount the e-motor about the same as you would a divorce mount xfer case, which involves a 2 piece driveshaft. In your case, you'd be using the e-motor as a carrier bearing between the two pieces of the driveshaft, with the motor installed directly to the frame, and the second section of drive shaft having universal joints and a steeper dive angle from the last output to the pinion yoke than it normally would in OEM configuration.

If I were doing this project, I'd probably get the output shafts from a VW transaxle, for the flanges, then get the CV joints that match them. Put the flanges on each shaft of the motor, then put the CV joints on the ends of the 2 driveshafts that mount up to each side of the motor, then mount the motor to the frame using a solid mount rail, something like a transmission cross member.

[droptail]

Originally Posted by bluetwo

What the?.... I admit I'm feeling a bit clueless on that one but does that go in a bimmer? I have got to look at that closer.

This is exactly the application I am talking about.

It now seems I have determined that this application isn't for low speed use.
It needs to be geared down to get my heavy vehicle moving. Looks like my only option here is driving in backwards through the transfer case.

Thanks

[droptail]

Originally Posted by Christ

You'll end up having to mount the e-motor about the same as you would a divorce mount xfer case, which involves a 2 piece driveshaft. In your case, you'd be using the e-motor as a carrier bearing between the two pieces of the driveshaft, with the motor installed directly to the frame, and the second section of drive shaft having universal joints and a steeper dive angle from the last output to the pinion yoke than it normally would in OEM configuration.

If I were doing this project, I'd probably get the output shafts from a VW transaxle, for the flanges, then get the CV joints that match them. Put the flanges on each shaft of the motor, then put the CV joints on the ends of the 2 driveshafts that mount up to each side of the motor, then mount the motor to the frame using a solid mount rail, something like a transmission cross member.

Trying to follow. Which end of the truck are you doing this mount, up front? And which direction are you driving, front axle or rear transfer case?

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by MadisonMPG

Strong insecurity in this one...


Christ, if you geared a motor to run at effective "second gear" speeds, wouldn't that make it (the motor) rev to hell and back @ 60?

Only if you use it. The bearings should be able to take high speeds, just make sure it isn't on or else it'll grenade.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by droptail

Yes, my particular application has a manual, however.
Is the loss of efficiency you refer to WRT an unlocked torque converter?

Thanks

It'sa function of how engines operate. Engine efficiency, generally speaking, is relatively poor at lower loads, and tends to increase w/ higher loads. If the engine is making power, and we add power from an electric motor, then engine load will drop and efficiency will probably drop too. There are situations, depending on engine load/speed where engine efficiency won't drop much or at all, but especially at lower speeds, outside of when the vehicle is accelerating, using an electric will probably decrease engine efficiency.

On the flip side, since low load is where an engine operates inefficiently, and this corresponds to low power, w/ a manual trans and a sufficiently powerful motor/battery combo, we can run on just the electric motor's output and only use the engine where it's efficiency is maximized.

Course, like I mentioned before, this brings up another problem, namely stretching a motor's power output over whatever gearing the rear end has, and since optimizing engine efficiency tends to include taller gearing, we may end up having motor power peak at a speed much too high to be useful for low speed/low load operation. There are exceptions, for instance I have an old Mercedes that tops out at ~76mph or something, so peak power at ~38mph is fine, but for other vehicles with taller rear ends, especially larger ones, having peak power at ~50-70mph isn't desirable in the context of using a hybrid conversion in a cost efficient manner. Gearing the motor up would help, but that introduces another set of problems. If ya want specifics LMK.