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Old 03-07-2018, 04:09 PM   #2631 (permalink)
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I'm always referring to this picture from Bonneville. I should have taken more. The fence is vertical and wraps out from the inner face of the tire to the outer face. If the tips were flaired out it would match Aston Martin's design.

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I want to turn those things into movable rudders.
Think shuttlecock.

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Old 03-07-2018, 05:55 PM   #2632 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Think ........Shuttlecock........
No, I think these aft rudders are more like the area behind the front wheels of this car below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_TR

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1958 250 Testa Rossa from the Ralph Lauren collection
However, there is no side of the car body for the air to flow as this is the very back of the car. Somehow it might be taming the turbulence by allowing the air to pressure plane.

These pressure planes are also called stators when stationed after a fan or propeller to uncurve the twisting thrust.

http://www.slipstreamhover.com/LIKE_...3hovertrek.htm


In the above only one set of those blades move, the stators are fixed in place and are after the fan blades.

Air cooled cars also may use these things.

Alternator Ground Strap - Pelican Parts Technical BBS


There is also something called a "splitter" in hovercraft that can be curved to capture the twisting flow - see picture below.

Neoteric Hovercraft, Inc.


The air twisting off those huge rear wheels is less destructive and drag causing if straightened out a bit. Maybe those divergent diffuser fences (fixed rudders) are doing exactly that.

Get yourself a large fan. Place your face or hand behind it and detect the air coming off. It will be in a twisting motion, even more evident without a safety grille, don't blame me if you get hurt. Just be careful, and don't wear a tie or loose clothing.

Anything spinning will leave a pattern of swirling air in it's wake, even tires.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:47 PM   #2633 (permalink)
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I agree in principle. I have front wheel examples as well, but the shape is inverted.

I picture them [thar skegs] as vortex generators that structure the wake.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:16 PM   #2634 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I picture them [thar skegs] as vortex generators that structure the wake.
I think we are inching closer.

Researching the term "Skeg" I found this article.

https://www.neckykayaks.com/live_it/...r_skeg_debate/
Quote:
In the best kayaks, weathercocking is a relatively modest effect, and can be overcome with strokes, edging, and/or the use of a skeg or rudder.
We might mislead ourselves and others when choosing the right or wrong phrase to fit this circumstance.

I don't want to get hung up on a term, and would rather put into context what is happening.

We are on the same page I think conceptually.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:45 PM   #2635 (permalink)
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Quote:
We might mislead ourselves and others when choosing the right or wrong phrase to fit this circumstance.

I don't want to get hung up on a term...

http://classicvehicleslist.com/oldsmobile/205980-1961-oldsmobile-dynamic-88-bubble-top-not-impala-bel-air-biscayne-hot-rod-custom.html

I saw it applied to the Oldsmobile in 1961, and I'm set in my ways.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:29 AM   #2636 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I saw it applied to the Oldsmobile in 1961, and I'm set in my ways.
I think that is a fantastic example of that era's automotive stylists that wanted to be airplane designers but went into art/design because their right hemisphere dominated brains just could not cut the math.

They could of went into architecture, but I bet the math scared them just as much in that field.

Certainly no aerodynamicists were involved in the creation of that example above posted, but the stylists hearts were in the right place.

It has an uncanny resemblance to the diffuser in question, and I admit, you have a fantastic memory for the automotive obscurities.


http://company.airbus.com/company/he...line/1950.html

Quote:
Designed purely for speed, the N 1502 Griffon was a ramjet used for research purposes.....

...... in 1955, one of the world’s fastest aircraft.
Certainly a student of speed in design would have been inspired by such craft and their use of dihedral fins.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:06 PM   #2637 (permalink)
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Obscurities for obscurities?

The N 1502 Griffon airform predicts the F16 and others. I just noticed the Olds has a boxed cavity that's relieved for taillight visibility.

I tend to conflate the GM styling flourish with Bellflower pipes.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:33 PM   #2638 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Obscurities for obscurities?

The N 1502 Griffon airform predicts the F16 and others. I just noticed the Olds has a boxed cavity that's relieved for taillight visibility.

I tend to conflate the GM styling flourish with Bellflower pipes.
The Nord 1500 Griffon does indeed resemble the F-16 Fighting Falcon, despite being 25 years older; but it manages to be one of the ugliest jet airplanes ever while the Falcon may be the most visually appealing jet - at least to my eyes.
Then, in 1955 nobody could compare the 2.

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Old 03-08-2018, 06:07 PM   #2639 (permalink)
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I need to correct an assumption I made about mid 1950's cars, the Dodge Dart at the top of this page in link below does indicate aerodynamic testing.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...d-26678-4.html

And it's my own post.
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:31 PM   #2640 (permalink)
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First car GM aero tested was '59 Chev, but it was a production model so the testing didn't result in improvements.

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