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Old 06-13-2012, 07:05 PM   #371 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
aerohead, you still have that *.PDF copy of that SAE paper that was sent to you? Maybe Rokeby would like seeing a copy?
I'll see if Al can walk me through it.I've never sent an attachment,been using slow mail.It's tough being a cave dweller!
The paper continues to reap benefits.Thanks mucho!
Found the PDF and Al explained the Forwarding.If Rokeby can send me a PM with email address,we'll do that next time.Stores closing now.Thanks again!


Last edited by aerohead; 06-13-2012 at 07:27 PM.. Reason: add info
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:44 PM   #372 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
I think the Panhard, the Mantra, and the Porsche 917LH all had the same designer?
Matra, not Mantra.

And yes, I believe they did. I think that one of the 917LH bodies was not designed by Deutsch, but SERA was still used to test out ideas. One design was definitely called the "SERA body".

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Old 06-14-2012, 09:21 AM   #373 (permalink)
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This is what I imagine is happening to the airflow.

Line #2 goes around the canopy, and draws in line #3 with negative pressure. The lines outside of #3, also get drawn in by the same effect.
Automobile 2 - Odds and Ends pictures by kach22i - Photobucket


The roof wing on my pickup truck works in a similar manner, directing air down, and drawing in the air flow above to make the rear spoiler more effective.

Regarding the Superbird, a friend of mine claims the reason the wing portion is so high, is that it allows the trunk to open. I'm sure the free airflow is important, but the trunk opening is a nice perk, don't cha think?
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:57 PM   #374 (permalink)
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grist for the Panhard mill

In SAE Paper 700035 by Karl E.Ludvigsen a 1961 Panhard D.B.coupe with enclosed rear wheels is reported at Cd 0.15 in model,Cd 0.18 in full-scale.
For around 1963 a Panhard C.D.,by Deutsch and Romani is reported at Cd 0.15 with wheel fairings.With 60 bhp the car was capable of 127 mph.
Marcel Hubert,associate of Romani worked on the C.D. and went on to become an automotive aerodynamic specialist,responsible for the 1963 Alpine M63 which also showed Cd 0.15.
Amazing when you consider Austin Healeys,M.G.s,Triumphs,and Corvettes of that period.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:51 AM   #375 (permalink)
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Phil,

Is one of those cars you mentioned the same as the 1964 CD Panhard LM64? I'd read that it has a Cd of 0.13 and could go ~155MPH with the 1L 2-cyl engine.

I'm also curious to learn more about the 1967 Panhard CD Peugeot 66C:



It looks to have a longer tail and the fin stabilizers are slightly straighter.

George, I think you are pretty close in the big picture sense, on the air flow.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:51 AM   #376 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
LM64
Yes, another great example.

The flow looks to be straighter, less convoluted.
Automobile 2 - Odds and Ends pictures by kach22i - Photobucket
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:24 PM   #377 (permalink)
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One link to rule 'm all

New Petersen Museum exhibit features early 'aerodynamic' cars

Check out the photo gallery !
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:16 PM   #378 (permalink)
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morph

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Originally Posted by Sven7 View Post
Phil, did the Dynavia morph into the 24?
I went back and found the citation I was thinking about.It's in Ludvigsen's SAE Paper.
He reported that is was the 1953 Panhard Dyna,4-door which is the technological decendent of the Dynavia.
Models were tested in the Saint-Cyr and Eiffel Laboratories wind tunnels and returned Cd 0.24,and Cd 0.26,respectively.
The full-size production car was measured at Cd 0.26.(An Opel Calibra in 1953!).
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:39 PM   #379 (permalink)
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LM and Peugeot

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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Phil,

Is one of those cars you mentioned the same as the 1964 CD Panhard LM64? I'd read that it has a Cd of 0.13 and could go ~155MPH with the 1L 2-cyl engine.

I'm also curious to learn more about the 1967 Panhard CD Peugeot 66C:



It looks to have a longer tail and the fin stabilizers are slightly straighter.

George, I think you are pretty close in the big picture sense, on the air flow.
Neil,Ludvigsen mentions nothing about the LM64.
I can only presume that this car came out for the next season and had greater horsepower along with more slippery bodywork as it's top speed is significantly increased.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to the '67 Peugeot I've got zero.Sorry! This is the period of Burt Munro's first trip to the Salt Flats and I suspect that anyone involved with streamlining would be watching there,along with developments with aircraft,hydrofoils,missiles,subs,rockets,torpedoe s,trains(Shinkansen started service in 1964) and the like.
Mickey Thompson's Challenger-I was running Cd 0.16,with 13.77 sq ft frontal area.His 'Pumpkin seed' was out there.
There is so much interdisciplinary cross-pollination which goes on in aerodynamics,that Deutsch had probably thought of a few more 'tricks.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS I'm looking through the backlight of the car and it looks like I'm seeing 4-velocity-stacks.If so,she's a mid-engined car which will be great for polar-moment-of-inertia as associated to steering,however this is also moving the center of gravity rearward which would mandate that they stretch the car to the rear,getting the vertical fins as far back as possible to get the center of pressure where they need it for high-speed stability.

Last edited by aerohead; 06-16-2012 at 02:48 PM.. Reason: Add PS
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Old 06-17-2012, 12:00 AM   #380 (permalink)
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Great catch, Phil. A 4-cylinder mid engine vs the 2-cylinder front engine of the LM64. The Matra had a midengine V12!

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