It's all over but for the sweating?

[freebeard]

Everybody Talks About the Weather, But Nobody Does Anything About It.

Mark Twain? Charles Dudley Warner?

Maybe the off topic forums are not the place for me. But before I go, let me point to this:

Science’s Looming ‘Tipping Point’

Here is the most important paragraph for me:

All the evidence supported an earlier analysis that we are the descendants of deeply traumatised survivors of prehistoric celestial ‘doomsday’ experiences. Those cataclysms seemed to trigger the mysterious sudden rise of the first civilizations. The events were memorialized in the early religions and prodigious architecture and monuments; and they were re-enacted in destructive wars. The mysterious stories of planetary gods battling in the heavens with thunderbolts is dismissed today without a second thought because it doesn’t fit the comforting myth of an electrically sterile, Newtonian clockwork planetary system wound up billions of years ago. Yet in the 21st century we still instinctively inflict war and senseless destruction while invoking those forgotten planetary gods. Perhaps the most important lesson from the Electric Universe is societal. Healing the compulsion to revisit doomsday-inspired insanity requires that we face the reality of our chaotic past on this planet. The implications for science, the humanities, and our future survival are profound.

Although there is a lot to learn, I don't anticipate that [m]any of you will read all the way through it. So I ran it through Summarize Text and cranked it *way* down:

So it is not surprising that planets, stars and galaxies are being discovered that ‘shouldn’t exist’ and most of the visible universe seems to be a mere impurity overwhelmed by mysterious ‘dark matter’ and ‘dark energy.’

...His model was limited because he had no practical experience of electric discharge phenomena in a near vacuum, otherwise he might have seen the photosphere as an atmospheric electric discharge phenomenon and not the surface of the Sun.


...If these motions are indeed that slow in the Sun, then the most widely accepted theory concerning the generation of solar magnetic field is broken, leaving us with no compelling theory to explain its generation of magnetic fields and the need to overhaul our understanding of the physics of the Sun’s interior.” [reprinted from materials provided by New York University.]


...A recent article in Nature (28 June 2012), Swirls in the corona, unintentionally answers both Juergens’ question and the most intractable problem for the Standard Solar Model: “The high temperatures associated with the Sun’s corona have made explaining its existence one of the most long-standing problems in astrophysics.”


...Most importantly, the electric field in the bulk of the plasma within the heliosphere is not zero, but vanishingly small — just sufficient to accelerate the solar ‘wind’ protons away from the Sun and then reversing direction to bring the solar wind mysteriously to a halt at the heliosphere boundary, or ‘virtual cathode’ of the solar discharge.

I would think that this could be the cause of much bloviation.

Hey, it's about the Sun so maybe it's on topic in this thread.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

August 2016 +3 years \ -2 years we will have no permanent Arctic ice.



This is the new "normal".

I'll bet a bottle of Lindemans that it won't be ice free, but if it is then it won't be the first time.

One thing I will say (and maybe this is a surprise to those who think me a mindless "de...") if the ice does go I really hope that governments involved take serious steps to preserve the region, and the same for the Antarctic. As has been discussed before humankind moving into a wilderness doesn't tend to end well for the wilderness itself.

[freebeard]

One thing I will say (and maybe this is a surprise to those who think me a mindless "de...") if the ice does go I really hope that governments involved take serious steps to preserve the region, and the same for the Antarctic.

Kidding, right? They're licking their chops, anticipating the ice making way for their plunder.

De...? Degrowther? D-d-d-democrat?

Uniformitarians are so funny, whistling past the graveyard. A small temperature rise is nothing to what humanity has survived in the past—not that it was good for the persons en-souled at that time.

I'd like to start a thread called Prefigurement of E-85 in lyrics:Hot Rod Boogie. What forum should that be in? Here, I'll make it easier:

C
Well I had an old Ford and it took a chill

It faded and sputtered as it made it up the hill
F
The motor died out and the thing wouldn't crank
C
Till I slipped a little hadicol in the tank
F C
She did the hot rod boogie and now it runs so fine
G7 C
Well it goes up the hill and the motor never even whines


Now I had a dear friend and he bought him a Dodge

We jumped in the thing and we started to the lodge
F
The motor died out and it stood still
C
And then with hadicol we did fill
F C
She did the hot rod boogie and now it runs so fine
G7 C
Well it goes up the hill and the motor never even whines

[oil pan 4]

I dont see how cool planet can take 100ppm of CO2 out of the atmosphere in 40 years when neil says it took the earth a million years to remove 100ppm.

I commend cool planet for putting out some measurable goals with a time line that isnt 1,000 years out. I just dont think its realistic. 10 or 20 ppm, yeah I might buy that

The antarctic is gaining ice. Plus they (mainly al gore) were saying the polar ice caps (both of them) would be ice free in 2010. There is less ice, but no where near the stated goal.
In the 1970s scientists were convinced we were going into another ice age.
So how sure are you this time?
Really, really sure?
all these dooms day predictions end the same way, never coming close to being true.

According to the arctic ice volume chart at least half the ice has melted since the 1980s, shouldn't there be a substantial sea level rise to go along with it?

[niky]

They will somehow magically produce a million solar-powered biomass factories?

[freebeard]

I no longer feel that everyone has me on Ignore.

oil pan 4 -- You'll notice that is predicated on converting 3% of the world's land (not arable land) area. What's the chance of that happening. I think it's there to make a point about the viability of their technology.

I think everything built going forward should accommodate increasingly hotter *and* colder conditions. Because of this: global warming trigger an ice age. I've said before my money's on runaway greenhouse causes an Ice Age, and the whiplash is what does us in.

niky -- Google.org is only asking for an initial 100,000.

Originally Posted by Arragonis

So what do we do to effect the changes that might be required - what policies to use, how should they be enacted ? How do you go from where we are now to where you think we should be ?

I think the answer is 'enacting policies' is impotent. Disruptive technology can come from a single Buckminster-Fulleresque individual. Like this guy:
Iron-Dumping Experiment in Pacific Alarms Marine Experts ...
www.nytimes.com/.../iron-dumping-experiment-in-pacific-alarms-ma...
Oct 18, 2012 – An environmental entrepreneur scattered 100 tons of iron dust in the Pacific Ocean this summer without any academic or government oversight, ..

Does anyone need to know what Hadicol is?

[niky]

Brings to mind Niven and Pournelle's "Fallen Angels", where an Ice Age is triggered accidentally by environmentalist governments trying to counteract Global Warming.

But yes, I feel that an accidental Ice Age might be one of our biggest and scariest problems out of a whole host of possible unintended consequences.

Oh, if only they hadn't clamped down on sulfur emissions... We'd still have this nice blanket of sunlight blocking poisonous particles keeping the Earth cool.

What say we H-Bomb a few volcanoes?

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by niky

Oh, if only they hadn't clamped down on sulfur emissions... We'd still have this nice blanket of sunlight blocking poisonous particles keeping the Earth cool.

Was that going to be the cause of the next ice age in the 1970s?
I cant remember what they said the cause would be.

Only a truely narrow minded person would put anyone other than scammers and spammers on ignore.

I read about some university doing an iron dumping experement a few years ago I didn't think it was anything new.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by niky

Brings to mind Niven and Pournelle's "Fallen Angels", where an Ice Age is triggered accidentally by environmentalist governments trying to counteract Global Warming.

Interesting. Before they collaborated on that piece of crap, they'd done some really good books, alone and together. Since then their output has been barely readable, at best. Guess that's what happens when you take a couple of hard-SF writers, and convince them to throw out science in favor of their brand of anti-science politics.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

In the 1970s scientists were convinced we were going into another ice age.

Again, crap. But this is crap with an amusing core of truth. What that "another ice age" really was about was that people had figured out that sulfur dioxide aerosols (large volumes of which were being emitted by e.g. coal-fired power plants prior to the Clean Air Act) have a cooling effect, as can be seen in the global temperature dips after major volcanic eruptions.

So these scientists pointed out, perfectly accurately, that if sufficient SO2 was emitted, it could cause sufficient cooling to trigger another ice age. That, plus the other nasty effects of atmospheric SO2, was part of the reason we got the Clean Air Act and such.

Now the amusing part here is that our denialist friends, though they obscure the truth behind the ice age prediction claim, still accept the reality of the effects of human SO2 emissions, Only now they give it a classy new name - "geoengineering" - and want to use it to counteract the global warming which they claim isn't happening.