It's all over but for the sweating?

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

...Of course there are warming & cooling cycles in nature, ranging from it generally being warmer in the afternoon than in the middle of the night up to the ~10,000 year long Milankovitch cycles Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that drive ice ages. We understand these things (or at least those of us who bother to learn anything about science instead of indulging in wish fulfillment fantasies do),

That is a good link - well worth a read or even a brief skim.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

and we know that they're all normal & natural, and have very little to do with the current & future climate change being driven by CO2 from fossil fuels.

Complete list of things caused by global warming. My favourite is the invasion of cats .

Originally Posted by ksa8907

I think im gonna buy a truck soon, how about a lifted excursion. Thoughts?

Why not - some people may assume because of this you have large reproductive organs and lots of money, other people may assume you have small reproductive organs and remaining credit to pay off. Both of which seem to be routes to success with desired sexual partners in society today - which is the path you wish to follow ?

[Arragonis]

From the OP:

Originally Posted by suspectnumber961

Their conclusions are yet more confirmation that the dire predictions of the 1972 report, “Limits to Growth”, were accurate...

The original report was produced by the 'Club of Rome'. One of the original founders of that club, Alexander King, wrote his memoirs. He stated :

It has to be remembered however that this is a ‘passive’ model in that it assumes no important economic, social, technological, or political changes will have taken place during the target years to sufficiently alter the interactions. Important changes that cannot be foreseen will, of course, take place

and

it is in no way a prophesy of coming doom” but a warning of what might happen if there were absolutely no changes whatsoever.

It wasn't meant to be read oustide academic circles where the limitations of the models used would be appreciated, but it seems to have taken a life of its own. Its interesting that the official site (of the 2004 update) still says this

In 2004 an updated edition was published; “Limits to Growth: The 30 Year Update“. Analysis of data gathered over the time since the first edition showed that the original models appeared to be realistic. Oil industry expert Matthew Simmons was quoted on the cover of the 2004 edition

That will be the Simmons who wrote extensively (and thoroughly - his analysis of the situation in Saudi is worth a read) on peak oil - which is not happening anytime soon apparently.

[gone-ot]

...as Doris Day sang it: "...Que Sera, Sera..."

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

From the OP:
That will be the Simmons who wrote extensively (and thoroughly - his analysis of the situation in Saudi is worth a read) on peak oil - which is not happening anytime soon apparently.

Five Misconceptions About Peak Oil

Pay particular attention to Misconception 1: Peak Oil=Running Out of Oil.

"In fact, anyone concerned about peak oil will readily acknowledge that we are going to be producing oil for a very long time, and when we stop there is still going to be a lot of oil left in the ground.

So what then is the definition of peak oil? In its simplest form, peak oil means that just as oil production in the United States peaked in 1970 and began to decline, so shall the rest of the world. Once you get past that basic premise – one in which there is near-universal agreement once people understand that is what you mean when you say 'peak oil' – there are many different opinions of exactly how events will unfold."

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Vman455

Five Misconceptions About Peak Oil

Pay particular attention to Misconception 1: Peak Oil=Running Out of Oil.

"In fact, anyone concerned about peak oil will readily acknowledge that we are going to be producing oil for a very long time, and when we stop there is still going to be a lot of oil left in the ground.

So what then is the definition of peak oil? In its simplest form, peak oil means that just as oil production in the United States peaked in 1970 and began to decline, so shall the rest of the world. Once you get past that basic premise – one in which there is near-universal agreement once people understand that is what you mean when you say 'peak oil' – there are many different opinions of exactly how events will unfold."

Agreed - I also agree the concept isn't just about Oil but about resources - "Peak Everything". I've read Simmons - he described the Saudi situation very well and from the standpoint of someone with lots of industry knowledge. His predictions that Saudi have hit the Peak looks like coming true in the relative short term.

A report by Citigroup has warned that Saudi Arabia could run out of oil to export by 2030, raising fears that oil prices may rise significantly in coming years.

But the situation has moved on and Saudi is possibly less important, so what I actually said was that it isn't going to happen any time soon, well according to the Guardian and others.

There were a number of different interpretations of the recent IEA report but if the Gaurdian - which has bought into the WWF view of the world more than any other newspaper - says it is unlikely, then it probably is.

Still not an excuse for wasting the stuff though.

[niky]

I don't think that there is any doubt that we're at or slightly past peak Arabian oil. That said, global supply looks like it will suffice for quite a few decades yet, due to weak demand. The issue is how to stabilize prices so that less economic sources can be successfully tapped in the long term.

I also think that there is no doubt that the climate is changing. The big question is the balance of factors involved and whether we can actually practice effective geoengineering. Personally, the obsession with CO2 is a dangerous diversion from things that we can actually do to better the situation.

[freebeard]

I think im gonna buy a truck soon, how about a lifted excursion. Thoughts?

Troll?

niky -- Looking back I see I mention Terra Preta in post #12. I think I must have mentioned this in the When Will It All Be Gone thread:

Cool Planet Biofuels

[niky]

Saw that. I think it's interesting. The one problem with bio-fuel generation from biomass is the accessibility of sources and the transport of the resulting fuel. If their small-scale systems really do work and are cheap enough, it may be possible they've got two birds with one stone.

Hell... If it works, I want one nearby. Imagine the jobs you could generate from running one.

[oil pan 4]

I think the U.S. needs to take advantage of becoming an energy exporter again, like we were in the 1940s and 1950s with oil.
These days we are exporting a lot of coal.
We also have some of the best refineries in the world (even tho the newest one was built in the 1970s) so we can export not only oil but much more profitable refined oil products and petrochemicals.
I say conserve so we can sell more.

Originally Posted by niky

the obsession with CO2 is a dangerous diversion from things that we can actually do to better the situation.

I think most people can agree on that.

[niky]

Unfortunately, politicians aren't "most people".