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Old 11-21-2012, 03:17 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Fuller's vision was that ephemeralization will result in ever-increasing standards of living for an ever-growing population despite finite resources."
The problem there is that a growing (or a stable but large) population reduces living standards by the very fact of its existence. There simply isn't enough area on the planet for everyone to enjoy an adequate amount of open space, so the majority must be forced/persuaded to live crowded together in cities.

 
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:43 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
The problem there is that a growing (or a stable but large) population reduces living standards by the very fact of its existence. There simply isn't enough area on the planet for everyone to enjoy an adequate amount of open space, so the majority must be forced/persuaded to live crowded together in cities.
...so, Horace Greely's infamous quote "...Go WEST youngman..." evolves to become "...Go UP (as in vertical URBAN jungles) youngman...".
 
Old 11-22-2012, 03:11 AM   #63 (permalink)
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The problem there is that a growing (or a stable but large) population reduces living standards by the very fact of its existence.
A larger population also means more minds working on the problem.

Quote:
There simply isn't enough area on the planet for everyone to enjoy an adequate amount of open space...
...for certain values of 'adequate'.

The planet is 70% water.

Quote:
...the majority must be forced/persuaded to live crowded together in cities.
Cities. Come for the work, stay for the culture.
 
Old 11-22-2012, 08:32 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...so, Horace Greely's infamous quote "...Go WEST youngman..." evolves to become "...Go UP (as in vertical URBAN jungles) youngman...".
When we run out of open space...then it IS ....up young man....go to the city and try to become a 1% er? And the 1% like it this way...since they control the ladder of suck-cess?



Currently not working out so well....way too many in debt for an education.....that can find no jobs using it?

The real problem are the ROBOTS...they are taking our jobs!!!!! Send them back to the recycling centers!




I really hate their smug looks.....
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:40 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheEnemy View Post
We have been holding pretty steady for the past several years.
Not to worry?


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Old 11-22-2012, 09:00 AM   #66 (permalink)
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RuhRo!

Where’s the News?: World Bank Warns Globe Could be Cooked by 2060


The summary also makes it clear that the situation is dire:


Without further commitments and action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, the world is likely to warm by more than 3C above the preindustrial climate. Even with the current mitigation commitments and pledges fully implemented, there is roughly a 20 percent likelihood of exceeding 4C by 2100. If they are not met, a warming of 4C could occur as early as the 2060s. Such a warming level and associated sea-level rise of 0.5 to 1 meter, or more, by 2100 would not be the end point: a further warming to levels over 6C, with several meters of sea-level rise, would likely occur over the following centuries.


Most US news organizations, or organizations purporting to be in the “news” business, continue to include climate deniers and bows to the “other side” of the global warming story on the few occasions when they even bother to report on it. The USA Today article cited above on the World Bank report is a classic of the genre: after saying a few things about what is in the report, it quotes both an “expert” at the libertarian Cato Institute, and an “expert” at the right-wing Heritage Foundation -- both organizations well lubricated with Oil Industry funding, who pooh-pooh the report. (Neither of these quoted sources is legitimate. Patrick Michaels, director of Cato’s Center for the Study of Science, while a climatologist, between 1998 and 2001 was “science advisor” to the coal industry-funded Greening Earth Society and has also been a big recipient of oil industry support. As for the Heritage Foundation’s David Kreutzer, he is not a climatologist at all, but rather is an “energy economist," which makes a reporter's going to him for a comment a travesty at best.)

Meanwhile, the World Bank report is unequivocal in its assessment of the crisis. It states that :


• The concentration of the main greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide (CO2), has continued to increase from its preindustrial concentration of approximately 278 parts per million (ppm) to over 391 ppm in September 2012, with the rate of rise now at 1.8 ppm per year.

• The present CO2 concentration is higher than paleoclimatic and geologic evidence indicates has occurred at any time in the last 15 million years.

• Emissions of CO2 are, at present, about 35,000 million metric tons per year (including land-use change) and, absent further policies, are projected to rise to 41,000 million metric tons of CO2 per year in 2020.

•Global mean temperature has continued to increase and is now about 0.8C above preindustrial levels.


In cautious language, the report explains the evidence that in a world where average temperatures globally rise by 4C -- and remember, if no action is taken to slow the process down by significantly reducing the humankind’s production of CO2, we’re talking about getting there in less than 50 years! -- the ocean surface will become too acidic to support plankton, the critical base of the oceanic food chain, droughts will spread and worsen over most of the world’s temperate and sub-tropical grain-producing regions, critical river systems will dry up or be substantially reduced in volume, sea levels will rise dangerously, storms and floods will worsen dramatically in severity and frequency, plague-type diseases will spread, and mass starvation will become more commonplace.



As the report concludes:


...there is also no certainty that adaptation to a 4C world is possible. A 4C world is likely to be one in which communities, cities and countries would experience severe disruptions, damage, and dislocation, with many of these risks spread unequally. It is likely that the poor will suffer most and the global community could become more fractured, and unequal than today. The projected 4C warming simply must not be allowed to occur—the heat must be turned down. Only early, cooperative, international actions can make that happen.



Clearly no such action is going to happen if the media are covering up the crisis. Politicians like President Obama and the wretched crew of self-serving trough-feeders populating the halls of Congress have not got the courage, or perhaps even the personal interest to tackle climate change, which inevitably would entail curtailment of capitalist excess, and end to the concept of “growth is good,” reduction in living standards, higher taxes for subsidizing mass transit, R&D and other necessary investments, and a new era of global cooperation. Only massive public pressure demanding action could move Washington to take action, and only a campaign of massive public information about the scale of the looming disaster could move people to demand such action, given that action will inevitably mean sacrifice.

To get the American public to understand that it must give up large gas-guzzling automobiles, downsize housing, learn to wear appropriate clothing so that homes and offices can be kept cooler in the winter and warmer in the summer, subsidize public transit and give up on making long trips by car, stop buying useless junk, and accept the need to help other less fortunate and less wealthy countries of the world also adapt, will require a responsible media to tell people the unvarnished truth.


...

IMO...

While humans have developed better technology over time...as much of it is used for wrong purposes such as war/surveillance/profit at others expense...as for good.

Over the several thousand years of recorded history...have humans really changed? You know the answer to that.

So...you should expect the worst case scenario.....

Doesn't mean you can't party like there is no tomorrow...you wouldn't even be pretending?
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Last edited by suspectnumber961; 11-22-2012 at 10:00 AM..
 
Old 11-22-2012, 11:46 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Here why don't we use something that isn't over a decade out of date.



This one shows some of the influence of El nino/La nina



Your 1000 year chart has been discredited years ago because the method used to combine the two datasets was flawed.

I don't dispute that global warming is happening, or that CO2 has an influence. I dispute that CO2 is the almost theonly cause, and that it is entirely bad.
 
Old 11-22-2012, 11:57 AM   #68 (permalink)
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If you follow the money, Al Gore spends more of his own money promoting human caused climate change than all of the oil industry combined.

That doesn't include all of the government (not just ours either) grants, all of which depend on supporting that WE are the primary cause.

Many times more money is spent and passed arround promoting that WE are the cause than money disputing it.

My Father currently works with an EX climate scientist... the reason he is an ex climate scientist is he was fired for disagreeing with the conclusion.
 
Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Global mean temperature has continued to increase and is now about 0.8C above preindustrial levels.
Uhhh no... only 0.6C... the peaks during el nino years are 0.8C but right now we are at 0.6C.
 
Old 11-22-2012, 12:31 PM   #70 (permalink)
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...and, how many of those "down trend" years coincided with volcano eruptions somewhere around the globe?

 
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