It's all over but for the sweating?

[Arragonis]

Here is the full section, well worth a read.

Global warming

Dyson agrees that anthropogenic global warming exists, and has written that "[o]ne of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas."[34] However, he believes that existing simulation models of climate fail to account for some important factors, and hence the results will contain too much error to reliably predict future

The models solve the equations of fluid dynamics, and they do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world we live in...[34]

He is among signatories of a letter to the UN criticizing the IPCC[35][36] and has also argued against the ostracization of scientists whose views depart from the acknowledged mainstream of scientific opinion on climate change, stating that "heretics" have historically been an important force in driving scientific progress. "[H]eretics who question the dogmas are needed... I am proud to be a heretic. The world always needs heretics to challenge the prevailing orthodoxies."[34]

More recently, he has endorsed the now common usage of "global warming" as synonymous with global anthropogenic climate change, referring to recent "measurements that transformed global warming from a vague theoretical speculation into a precise observational science."[37]

He has, however, argued that political efforts to reduce the causes of climate change distract from other global problems that should take priority:

I'm not saying the warming doesn't cause problems, obviously it does. Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I'm saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. They take away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans.[38]

Since originally taking interest in climate studies in the 1970s, Dyson has suggested that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere could be controlled by planting fast-growing trees. He calculates that it would take a trillion trees to remove all carbon from the atmosphere.[39][40]

Dyson says his "heresy" on global warming has been strongly criticized. In reply, he notes that "[m]y objections to the global warming propaganda are not so much over the technical facts, about which I do not know much, but it’s rather against the way those people behave and the kind of intolerance to criticism that a lot of them have."[41]

"To reach reasonable solutions of the problems [of global warming], all opinions must be heard and all participants must be treated with respect."[42]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

(Freeman Dyson)

1) Argument from authority.

2) Dyson has no track record of serious work in climate-related fields. He is simply expressing his prejudices, without (so far as I have seen) any serious analysis of the science. Without some sort of evidence, he's just another denier.

3) His suggestions for dealing with excess CO2 have a certain lunacy factor. Seriously, genetically-engineering trees to produce diamonds?

[NeilBlanchard]

So, along with Freeman Dyson, and the long list of scientists I posted, you accept anthropogenic climate change - that's great!

[Arragonis]

That wasn't an issue, but I'm glad we're all cool again (or maybe warm ).

Originally Posted by ME!

Has the world temperature increased. Yep. 0.8 DegC in the 20th century as far as we know. There are issues with the record and adjustments but it is the best we have. Making a global temp is an awesome undertaking, the people involved deserve all the support they need, but they also need to be more open - IMHO.

Does CO2 affect climate ? Yep. Maybe in ways we don't even know yet because we focus on others.

Does man create more CO2 ? Yep. That stuff about "volcanos making ore CO2 than us" is a nonsense smokescreen of rubbish.

Do man's other activities affect the climate ? Yep - we have cleared trees to make farmland, dammed or changed the courses of major rivers even connected seas together. We have even removed mountains to make mines for things we can only make into jewelry or store in bank vaults - how mad is that ?

When mankind moves into a wilderness it never improves it.

Has man's creation of CO2 contributed to warming ? Probably, it won't have reduced it any. But then again how much given it has been warmer and colder before ?

So what is being "denied" ? Well it is the missing C in front of AGW - "Catastrophic", or even the sometimes used D for "Dangerous". So lets go with those questions :


Are today's temperatures unusual ? Maybe, we don't know. History suggests not - at least on a questionable local level (MWP / LIA). More open science please.

Has CO2 been higher ? Yep.

Has CO2 been lower ? Yep.

Does CO2 drive temperature ? Maybe. "Basic physics" says yes but evidence suggests only maybe. It also suggests strongly that CO2 follows temp. Needs more open research IMHO.

But what about the 20th Century Rise ? Well it could be CO2 from the Industrial Revolution or it could be warming from the end of the LIA or it could be a combination of both.

But what about the "Pause ?" Well you tell me ? Scientists said when the pause started in 1997 that 16 years would be the limit before the models would be invalid. They chose the start and the parameters, so are the models now invalid ?

[freebeard]

3) His suggestions for dealing with excess CO2 have a certain lunacy factor. Seriously, genetically-engineering trees to produce diamonds?

You may be right
I may be crazy
But it just may be a looonatic you're looking for

Billy Joel

That actually sounds pretty good. Would they be nano-scale sized or as big as grapefruit?

[Arragonis]

Dyson was challenged on his views a couple of years ago, the exchange is recorded here.

Letters to a heretic: An email conversation with climate change sceptic Professor Freeman Dyson - Climate Change - Environment - The Independent

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

The street lighting here is great - its one of the main things I miss when I have to venture overseas.

Whether you like it or not isn't the point, it's that Britain's use of so much energy on outdoor lighting (and so many other things that a reasonably frugal person would think wasteful) proves that it is hardly energy starved.

Personally, I loathe street lighting, and unused outdoor lighting in general. (Particularly the orange mercury-vapor ones that make parking lots look like prison compounds - and why do our anti-CFL friends never complain about the mercury in those lights, I wonder?) I'm glad I live where there are few, and can easily get away to where there are none at all.

[NeilBlanchard]

James, I think you have put your finger on one of the main reasons that most of us don't understand how deeply connected we are to the earth and the universe and to the rest of life. We are blinded at night and we cannot see the stars.



http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...restWander.jpg

HUGE image of the night sky

We have lost our wonder...

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

James, I think you have put your finger on one of the main reasons that most of us don't understand how deeply connected we are to the earth and the universe and to the rest of life. We are blinded at night and we cannot see the stars.

Not just the stars. I like hiking & cross-country skiing at night, simply because there's such a different view of the world. Or even just sitting out in the yard in the summer, listening to the owls talk.

Not only do people lose connections, they start making up their own fantasies, like the nonsense about a blue moon being the second full moon in a month, when in fact it is nothing more or less than the moon appearing blue. Which it does, rarely: I've seen it twice.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Not only do people lose connections, they start making up their own fantasies, like the nonsense about a blue moon being the second full moon in a month, when in fact it is nothing more or less than the moon appearing blue. Which it does, rarely: I've seen it twice.

Wikipedia needs fixing then.

A blue moon is a second full moon in a single calendar month, which happens every two to three years

[NeilBlanchard]

Back in 1982, I traveled to New Zealand with my family, and my brother and my sister and I "tramped" the Heaphy Track. It was September, so late spring, and there were no other people walking the track - we only saw a warden on the first and last of the 5 days.

On the 4th night, I went outside the cabin and down to the river bank and when I looked up at the sky - I had to shout out loud! The Hydra was a brilliant *cloud* of stars making a bright snaking band across the sky - I will remember it always.

We miss so much and we shrink our universe down to a light polluted ground-based little zone...

Speaking of New Zealand, Christopher Monckton was not well received:

Monckton Panned in Kiwi-Land. Might Be Ready to Hang up Spurs. | Climate Denial Crock of the Week