Just rode in a VOLT!

[robchalmers]

I completely agree with your last statement Ben i'm looking at buying a leaf or a fleunce or a Zoe for the majority of my driving yet for the family trips to carlisle /edinburgh/france we'll probably use the missus' car (ICE) as think that would be a more rounded solution that and ICE and a Volt.

[MN Driver]

Originally Posted by euromodder

..I don't like the design for starters, but that's something I could put aside if the car was rather efficient.
Then it turns out it also has a lousy 40 mile range on batteries, and a miserable MPG on gas once the batteries run out.

It's EV-range isn't even enough for my own 30mile / 50km commute without recharging (no facilities at work, and pretty few in the entire country come to think of it).

If I'm buying an EV I'm not going to buy something that switches to a thirsty ICE quickly.
If I'm buying an EV I want something that'll do most of my trips as an EV.
..

40 miles might be lousy for your needs but for most people living in the United States, 40 miles does cover it. Considering that many people on this site hypermile they will likely get closer to 50 miles if they coast more than the average driver with the mentality of 'I'm going to go the 55mph speed limit until I'm 5 seconds from the stop light where I will jam my brakes'. There was a news reporter who was driving the Volt who seemed like the average person who had it switch over at the 47 mile mark driving in a small town. I'm sure the high 30's mpg is probably similar too, most people who I've seen talking about it in videos have been driving it with a typical enthusiastic wasteful driving technique having fun with the car. I wouldn't doubt that getting 40 mpg is fairly obtainable. I'm also curious what it would get crossing the country at a constant speed of 75mph which is the speed limit of most of our interstate system, probably in the high 30's but to most people living in the states, they would probably be enthusiastic to have that over their low 20's they are likely used to. ...but for most people who aren't going over that range too often, what the point they don't have any concern for gas mileage because they will be driving in EV mode. I think that is where people are hung up, they think, or maybe they will be driving over 40 miles often but for most people it isn't often at all and if you aren't going out for a road trip it probably won't be that far past 40 miles so the impact isn't that big.

I still think this car will appeal to people who will be driving it roughly 20-40 miles in a round trip and maybe slightly more than that. I don't think it is a terribly inefficient car if you compare it to what most of the current cars on the road. If you compare it to a Prius, Insight, or other car that is designed with no other purpose but gas mileage, yes the Volt is inefficient by comparison. I'm not convinced that GM was trying to build a car for people who drive a Prius, they are trying to build a car for people who probably don't like the look of the Prius or how it operates and handles and I understand why they made aerodynamic compromises when doing it. If it was priced lower it is a car that makes more sense. ...but for the average used car buyer, once this car is in the right price range for them, I'm sure it will be grabbed up quickly. Going through discussion threads there seem to be tons of people who want this car, even at its current price. The Leaf has already allocated its entire 2011 20,000 build quota according to Autoline so unless they can contract more batteries and build more, I think that some people are going to hop on the Volt bandwagon.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Rather than *****ing and moaning about the range, maybe you should put more effort into getting a recharge point installed at your place of work.

I'm only moaning about the Volt's limited EV range.
The Leaf would fit my requirements, well mostly anyway.


I could try and get my employer to start installing charging points, after all the group has been boasting in the press with EVs they supplied materials for.
But I won't be holding my breath, the parking lot has just been rebuilt without any alternative fuel or drive-through considerations.


The whole situation and future for alternative fuels in Belgium looks quite bleak. In many cases it's also a legal thing, for example E85 can't even be sold.

[cfg83]

Hello -

If not for the cost, the Volt would be great for me.

If not for the range, the Leaf would be great for me.

Wa, wa, waaaaaaaah (game show "you lose" music)

CarloSW2

[gone-ot]

...automotive "doughnut" (or, toilet-seat?) hole analogy?!?

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by MN Driver

40 miles might be lousy for your needs but for most people living in the United States, 40 miles does cover it.

I'm looking at it from my own and a European perspective.
Belgium is a very small country, with the north being quite densely populated.
Yet even then & there the Volt's short EV-range wouldn't fit me.

Distances in Europe are generally far shorter than in the US.
500 miles and 3 countries later, I'd be on the other side of the former Iron Curtain.
From Miami FL, I would hardly make it out of the state !


In Europe, the competition from diesel engines will also be fierce.
I really doubt wether a lot of people are going to buy an expensive 34 mpg car when they can buy a 50+ mpg diesel.

Considering that many people on this site hypermile they will likely get closer to 50 miles

Even then it still wouldn't do.
Hypermiling is a niche activity practiced by very few people.
Over time, any battery pack is also bound to degrade a bit, affecting range.

I'm not convinced that GM was trying to build a car for people who drive a Prius, they are trying to build a car for people who probably don't like the look of the Prius or how it operates and handles

Driving a Prius is little different from driving any other run-of-the-mill car with an automatic transmission.

If you're trying to built an efficient car, clearly aiming at the customers who give a d@mn about burning gas, then surely the Prius and Insight are the cars to beat. In Europe, it'd also have to beat the diesel competition.

These 2 hybrids would be my lower benchmarks if I were to design a new fuel-saving car that'd only hit the market 2.5 years later.

The battery can't be an excuse for a low MPG on gas, sorry.

The Leaf has already allocated its entire 2011 20,000 build quota according to Autoline

The Ampera won't even be here until late 2011.

[gone-ot]

...flat-land-Kansas USA is not the same as rolly-polly Europe!

...do those 40 mile (Volt) and 100 mile (Leaf) "ranges" include having to climb & descend hills? I sorta doubt it.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...why? Gas stations are everywhere already!

...it's called INFRASTRUCTURE, and EV's don't "have" it yet. When they do, THEN they'll be VIABLE...which currently they're not and so are currently only barely marginal.

I KNOW, RIGHT! ELECTRICITY IN HOMES? FROM SMALL "OUTLETS"? THAT'LL BE THE DAY!

[bennelson]

Originally Posted by euromodder

I really doubt wether a lot of people are going to buy an expensive 34 mpg car when they can buy a 50+ mpg diesel.......
...The battery can't be an excuse for a low MPG on gas, sorry.

Again, you really can't compare the Volt to a typical ICE vehicle, whether it is gasoline or diesel powered. You CAN NOT just discount the miles traveled on electricity.

Lets say you want to travel 50 miles.
Your diesel vehicle gets 50 miles per gallon.
You have just used one gallon of fuel.

For those same 50 miles, you instead drive the Volt.
The first 40 miles are completely covered by the battery power. (For simplicity, lets ignore the cost & theoretical MPGe of the electricity used.)
Leaving 10 miles to travel by gasoline power. Lets just say the Volt gets 30 mpg while running on gas. That means you just used 1/3 gallon of gasoline.

One gallon of fuel vs One-Third (+electricity). I know which one I would pick. Now OF COURSE if you drove the Volt MOSTLY as a gas vehicle then the fuel economy of it becomes REALLY important - but that's not how it's going to be marketed or used. If you mostly drive long trips, you AREN'T going to be buying a Volt.

I don't know what the current cost for gasoline or diesel fuel in Belgium or other European countries right now, but I am willing to bet that it's significantly higher than an equivalent amount of electricity.

[robchalmers]

done a bit of math. And this is based on ME and my 75 mile daily commute.

in a new 55mpg diesel astra I'd use 1.36 gallons
in a volt -40 miles and @35mpg I'd use 1 gallon.

so I'd save half a gallon a day or roughly £36 a month.

sadly the monthlies on the finance of a £32,000 ampera are a little more than £6 a month more than a £17k astra

for ME its just not viable.


but i can see how it may work for urban locked commuters as you say.