Just rode in a VOLT!

[Nevyn]

Hypermiler-level driving in a Volt will push that EV range from 40 to near 60 miles. Does that change your math by enough?

[autoteach]

Probably wont...

This is going to go on until someone here buys one, then we will second guess his figures and tell him he wasnt scientific enough.

[robchalmers]

[MN Driver]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

I KNOW, RIGHT! ELECTRICITY IN HOMES? FROM SMALL "OUTLETS"? THAT'LL BE THE DAY!

I can't wait until the day my house gets wired with this 'electricity' thing. I've heard it's quite the added convenience.

I wonder if I need to upgrade my service though, I've got a house built in the 80's, right before they went to a 200amp service standard. I know that I don't need more than a 100 amp service in my house but I'm not sure if I could get away with tossing in a 50 to 70amp charge cord for a 100+ mile EV. The Tesla has charge ports that push 70 amps. I don't use much electricity and the largest load would be the air conditioning from the 20amp 240v circuit. I use a laptop and the fridge might run. 50amp would be comfortable and I might get away with a 100amp service with most of my appliances running. ...it's all about code requirements though. I'd toss the 70amp breaker and wire up a charger myself since I'm the homeowner and wouldn't mind flipping the 100amp breaker once or twice if I had to until I found the limits to what I could run. What does is the largest Leaf charger? I think J1772 goes up to 70amps if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: Leaf uses a 40 amp breaker for 240v charging and J1772 is limited to either 70 or 80 amps depending on where I look.

[bennelson]

Remember, AMPS is essentially the speed of charging an electric car.

I think another reason GM went with the "40 mile range" battery pack, because even on 120V, it's still just an overnight charge.

Teslas have a BIG battery! (over 200 mile range) so you either need high amperage or a long time to charge them.

I think a full Tesla charge on 120v is something like two days....

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by bennelson

Again, you really can't compare the Volt to a typical ICE vehicle, whether it is gasoline or diesel powered. You CAN NOT just discount the miles traveled on electricity.

Obviously, when anyone buys a car that runs on electricity, their aim is to drive on electricity.
Sure the Volt can drive a bit on electricity, but it's simply not enough to be viable.

Lets say you want to travel 50 miles.
Your diesel vehicle gets 50 miles per gallon.
You have just used one gallon of fuel.

For those same 50 miles, you instead drive the Volt.
The first 40 miles are completely covered by the battery power. (For simplicity, lets ignore the cost & theoretical MPGe of the electricity used.)
Leaving 10 miles to travel by gasoline power. Lets just say the Volt gets 30 mpg while running on gas. That means you just used 1/3 gallon of gasoline.

Sure, but let me take your numbers a bit further:

My commute is actually 60 miles.
My diesel uses 1.2 gallons.
The Volt depletes the battery and needs to go another 20 miles on gas.
Now it's already using 2/3 of a gallon or half my diesel's fuel consumption (and 65% of costs).

Let's take it out to the Leaf's max. range, 100 miles.
My diesel would use 2 gallons.
The Volt would deplete the battery and would still have 60 miles to go on gas.
Those 60 miles in the Volt woud also cost 2 gallons.
And we're only at 100 miles.

At least for the time being, diesel is still a bit cheaper than gas here, those 2 gallons of gas cost 2.35 gallons of diesel.
And we haven't even figured in the price of electricity.

One gallon of fuel vs One-Third (+electricity). I know which one I would pick.

Based on a short distance between charges.
The Volt/Ampera quickly becomes far less attractive when the distance between charges increases.

But if these short distances fit into someone's driving habit, why would they choose the Volt at all with it's complex clutching mechanisms and a superfluous ICE built in
The Leaf would do it on electricity alone with range to spare.

Now OF COURSE if you drove the Volt MOSTLY as a gas vehicle then the fuel economy of it becomes REALLY important - but that's not how it's going to be marketed or used.

I fear for GM that people will quickly be seeking through their marketing.

If its EV-range fits one's short-range driving patterns, it's simply not the best available car to buy.
Once you venture beyond its EV-range, it quickly becomes rather inefficient.

I really, really wonder who they are going to sell them to.

If you mostly drive long trips, you AREN'T going to be buying a Volt.

Nor a Leaf.

But I could easily combine a Leaf for 80-90% of my driving and join a car sharing organisation for the longer trips beyond its range.

I don't know what the current cost for gasoline or diesel fuel in Belgium or other European countries right now, but I am willing to bet that it's significantly higher than an equivalent amount of electricity.

It's indeed a lot more.
But as you see above, that benefit quickly fades.

[NHRABill]

Wow I thought there would be more love for the Volt on this forum. Guess not, well I drove one today anyhow, and living in New Jersey I am excited. I love listening to the Euro guys (no disrespect) talking about the High mileage turbo diesel cars they have. the only problem I see for those of us in the States is that those vehicles cannot pass safety standards over here. they also fail our emission standerds in many areas. Yes it is true that the emissions varies from state to state and they would fail miserably in mine. So the 80mpg or even 50mpg turbo diesel Family car does not and will not exist here unless you make one or modify one to do so.

My thoughts on the Volt is its expensive but 1st generation of a completely new technology. You can read the TRUE connection that the ICE has with the electric motors here

Clearing Up Confusion About the Chevrolet Volt | Volt

Just another Side Note on how normal driving 127mpg can easily be obtained.
Guys at motor trend did a nice article here:

127 MPG: This Volt Story Must Be Told - Motor Trend Blog

So be a hater on the styling or that it isn't running on a more expensive fuel like diesel. Ponder the material of the 9.1gallon fuel tank and laugh at the exhaust cutout that can only be seen from underneath. Remember that this is the 1st generation and prices will come down, batteries will improve and that it may not fit everyones needs. I sure don't need one but I would like to have one. I live in the state with the Highest car insurance in the nation my downpayment alone for a 6 month policy is more then some of you pay in 5 years. Gas is average with the rest of the country and diesel is always expensive. E85 is not available here and traffic can only be rivaled by LA or Washington DC during a rally. Living in the most densly populated state sucks to say the least and driving is often a nightmare. Having an electic alternative by a top world manufacturer creating competition is a good thing for us all. This will mainstream everything, creating a new market for EV vehicles we should celebrate the Volt and not knock it.

My situation and does the Volt fit me?
I Have:
2005 Harley Gets 55mpg odometer3,200 miles
2004 Cadillac SRX averages 22mpg odometer 99,500 miles
2002 Oldsmobile Alero GLS averages 26mpg odometer 42,000 miles
1995 Chevrolet Tahoe now averages 15.2mpg odometer 203,000 miles
1975 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray averages 1/2 mile per Gallon on Methanol and 7 MPG on Gas 6-71 supercharged drag car coverted back to gas for street use next spring.

For ME the Volt would be Awesome I work from home my wife takes the train into NYC 3 times a week so I drive 2 miles to the station and another 2 miles to drop my daughter at daycare. The Grocery store is 2 blocks away along with every other needed convenience. I average 12,000 miles a year driving combined on all my vehicles. 5 years ago I averaged 45,000 miles a year, I am not ready for a Volt but in a couple years I will need to replace a few cars with something newer and safer. Chances are it will be a Volt.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by NHRABill

the only problem I see for those of us in the States is that those vehicles cannot pass safety standards over here.

A lot of them are actually being sold in the US, just not with diesel engines.
Even more of them could easily be sold in the US, like the Ford Fiesta or Fiat 500, if more manufacturers would see $$$$ in them.

they also fail our emission standerds in many areas.

It mostly depends on how strict NOx and particulate matter standards are.

My thoughts on the Volt is its expensive but 1st generation of a completely new technology.

What new technology ?
Electric drive is hardly new, just reinvented, and GM is hardly the first to market one.

Meet the 1916 Detroit Electric car.


Hybrid drive is not new either.
Toyota and Honda have been at it for over a decade.

we should celebrate the Volt and not knock it.

Sorry, but I won't add to the hype if it's unsubstantiated.

[robchalmers]

I'm glad that it suits your life and but I'm just not to sure on the price and the NEW NEW NEW plugging its getting and the factits outright practicality will leave it exposed over here in Europe

[bennelson]

hey NHRABill,

I am also surprised at how divisive the VOLT has been.

Ecomodder is usually a very positive place, but I think that we have a lot of folks that are also very economical-minded, and range from driving as little as possible to save cash to driving the most gas-sipping car because they drive a zillion miles!

NHRABill, do you know Peter Crisitello? He's out in Jersey and is a member of the local EAA there. (He's also a Citicar guy.) He wrote a great blog entry on why he wouldn't buy a Chevy Volt. He's one of the first guys that I know personally who got to drive a Volt.

Overall, he liked a lot of things about the Volt, but felt really disconnected from the road, and didn't care for the interfaces between the driver and the car. Keep in mind that also collects Studebakers.


Euromodder: besides EV's having been around a long time, HYBRIDs have also been around since prior to 1900. But it isn't a matter of how long a technology has been around, it matter's how mainstream it is in terms of economy of scale for manufacturing.

We have been cranking out gasoline cars for the last hundred years, but have barely dabbled in EVs.

I do think that the price gap between the Volt and the Leaf is enough that I think a lot of people would choose the Leaf and the savings.