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Old 09-29-2014, 05:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
If Toyota made a hybrid Prius and a less expensive non-hybrid gas only Prius less people would buy them both combined. Many buy the Prius over any of the other makes hybrids because they are immediately recognized as being a hybrid.
That's a reason to explain why so many people hate the Prius, and more specifically hate its stereotypical owners. Its exterior design looks good regarding efficiency, but one can easily bet it would have a lower environmental footprint thru its lifetime with a manual transmission and some smaller engine (3-cyl 1.2L might be enought, considering that it would still have less internal frictions than the 1.3L 4-pot gasser used in some overseas versions of the Corolla)...

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Old 09-29-2014, 06:33 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I read about a guy that traded in his Civic Hybrid for a Prius because the distinct rims were not enough to distinguish his hybrid.
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:05 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Most new car buyers aren't dedicated to mpg.

Most of the ones who care about mpg want the car to give it to them.

And look at us: we're not all driving cycles, Metros or 1st gen Insights, are we? Every car is a huge pile of compromises, and every car tops someone's list of needs.
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Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

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Old 09-29-2014, 01:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Its exterior design looks good regarding efficiency, but one can easily bet it would have a lower environmental footprint thru its lifetime with a manual transmission and some smaller engine...
Yes yes, but the Prius was designed to be driven by Uhmericans, and we don't know how to drive a manual, and can't stand to be in anything that can't accelerate like a rocket.

The Gen II prius had a smaller engine, but Toyota put a larger engine in the Gen III to increase torque and keep the electric motor from working so often.

The car is meant to be driven normally, which means it was meant to be driven poorly. Customers want the car to respond normally when they drive it poorly, while still getting good fuel economy.

That said, even though there are tons of compromises in the design of the Prius, there are still ways to hypermile the heck out of 'em.

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Originally Posted by Fat Charlie View Post
Most of the ones who care about mpg want the car to give it to them.
Exactly.

I'm constantly correcting people on other car forums who complain about their fuel economy. For instance, someone on the Acura TSX forum was asking what else besides a CAI they could buy to improve the fuel economy of their car, because it was only getting 20 mpg. I had to correct them by saying they are only getting 20 mpg, and that I'm getting 31, and a CAI would do the opposite of what they wanted.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Buying a brand new car is almost never about money, and extremely rarely about getting good gas mileage. Those factors definitely influence things, but its a lot more complex... Mostly its all about what the owner to be wants, and their perceived 'needs'. Cars these days aren't built to meet needs, they're built to meet wants.

I bought my Prius for a bunch of reasons (in no particular order):
1) it got better mileage than my Matrix that it replaced
2) it is technologically geeky and I like that
3) it is ridiculously easy to get really good mileage
4) it is more luxurious than my Matrix was
5) at the time, with the miles that were being put on the car (35k/yr), the extra couple thousand for the car made sense as I was saving over $300/yr in fuel, the ROI was there in the used market
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
...The Gen II Prius had a smaller engine, but Toyota put a larger engine in the Gen III to increase torque and keep the electric motor from working so often...
...and, the reasons for switching to a larger engine were:

1) obtain more TORQUE at lower engine RPMS
2) which permitted use of lower CVT final ratio
3) obtain better FUEL ECONOMY (+10%)
4) make Atkinson engine more EFFICIENT overall
5) standardize engine block production for lower production costs
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Old 09-29-2014, 03:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I just bought a used prius for my fiance, '07 for 7k. She is not and likely will never be a hypermiler, so this car allows her to get 50 mpg without the burden of having to try to get great mileage. Compared to other used vehicles it made the most sense for our situation. It has plenty of space, is ridiculously reliable, has good safety and tech features, and they hold their value really well. The gas saving over her old car which got 25-30 mpg will save us almost $100 a month. Sure we could have bought a cheaper gas only vehicle, but she doesnt drive manual so there is no other car which can approach Prius mileage for her that fits our needs.
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Old 09-29-2014, 06:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemanspif View Post
Yes. End of discussion lol.

Most people buy a Prius because it's a car that enables them to drive like typical A-holes but returns good MPG...for them...horrible for people here, but good for them. They also think that they are saving the planet by driving one because Toyota (or the greenies that Toyota paid off?) somehow convinced America that the Prius is going to single-handedly solve the gas crisis. When, in reality, hybrid drivetrains are basically a band-aid to the problem because they enable the auto engineers to not design better, more FE, engines.

Watch the "Smug Alert!" episode of "South Park" to understand why regular people buy a Prius lol.
Toyota has a gasoline direct injection turbo'd engine on the way with a thermal efficiency of 43%,rivaling the best in the world,including the best TDI engines from any carmaker,worldwide.
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Old 09-29-2014, 08:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFiestaS View Post
My Fiesta gets mileage quite close to that of a Prius.

How could I justify purchasing a new Prius and relinquishing my Fiesta?

I gather it's like $14k for my Fiesta and 24k + for the Prius. I'm all for saving money so if you Prius owners can tell me mathematically how the Prius is advantageous, I might go get one. Even if I add a manufacturers extended warranty for a couple thousand to ward off the "lower quality" argument, I just can't see it. Help me.

Thanks in advance for being precise in your replies, as generalities can be had anywhere.
Correction: Your Fiesta, driven intelligently, gets mileage quite close to that of a Prius, driven by a Luddite.

When I went car-shopping last February, it came down to a Prius or three-cylinder Fiesta. I was only looking at new because a) I plan on driving it into the ground b) I've never had a new-new car before and wanted one. The Prius (2013 leftover) only cost me $20k, which narrowed the gap considerably between that and what I could have gotten the Fiesta (2014) for; I get considerably better mileage out of it than I think I could have in the Ecoboost Fiesta, and much better than a 4-cylinder Fiesta which carries an EPA rating similar to my old car; and it met one of my major wants--the capacity to carry a TT bike inside without removing the front wheel or seatpost.

If your only criterion is saving money, don't buy a new car. In fact, if your only criterion is saving money, don't buy a car. For you--you already have a near-new Fiesta, keep it.
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Old 09-29-2014, 08:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If your only criterion is saving money, don't buy a new car. In fact, if your only criterion is saving money, don't buy a car. For you--you already have a near-new Fiesta, keep it.
/Thread.

Another thing to consider is that most people shop with a budget, so they will compare a used CPO Prius and a new Fiesta at a budget range of $15-18k.

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