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Old 02-10-2020, 01:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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LG is a good company. Why did they pick losers for partners? I guess this was somehow a better opportunity than other automakers.
Honestly, I'd say the Bolt is not a loser. It already has 200+ mile range with LG chem batteries. I really wouldn't say the 50mi+ range Volt was either. But... once again hugely unprofitable. They lost a lot of money on these cars. The Bolt is a nice deal on the used market for under 20k now. Thats not a bad price. Still doesn't compete with the cost to own of the hybrid market but its getting there. I still say EV's won't be common place until about 2050 so we are in the Early stages.

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Old 02-10-2020, 01:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The reason why Hyundai is so competitive with the ecar market is because of their proximity to the battery manufacturers in their home company.
Not only that, but South Korea is essentially an island the size of Kentucky, which is one of our smaller states. EVs are a clear choice there. I expect 50% of vehicles there to be EV in this decade. Same with Japan and other countries that are island-like or have aggressive policy to promote them.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Not only that, but South Korea is essentially an island the size of Kentucky, which is one of our smaller states. EVs are a clear choice there. I expect 50% of vehicles there to be EV in this decade. Same with Japan and other countries that are island-like or have aggressive policy to promote them.
True. They use vehicles much much differently there. Their infrastructure is so easy compared to ours. Plus their work ethic is like 9x ours per my engineering teacher who tells us horror stories of working at Hyundai. lol
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The latest explanation that I have read for cheap and low-mileage Japanese engines is they only drive 5,000 - 8,000 miles annually and there are heavy societal pressures to have new cars in perfect shape.

The Leaf sounds perfect for that situation.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The latest explanation that I have read for cheap and low-mileage Japanese engines is they only drive 5,000 - 8,000 miles annually and there are heavy societal pressures to have new cars in perfect shape.

The Leaf sounds perfect for that situation.
This is absolutely correct.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Everybody knows lithium ion batteries need environmental conditioning for longevity, including Nissan. It seems Nissan counted on battery prices or technology improving so quickly that protecting the investment was not necessary. You've got cars needing new batteries after only 7 years even in temperate climates.

I might take the Leaf off of my list to consider after my experience checking out battery health on 2 of the vehicles.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Everybody knows lithium ion batteries need environmental conditioning for longevity, including Nissan. It seems Nissan counted on battery prices or technology improving so quickly that protecting the investment was not necessary. You've got cars needing new batteries after only 7 years even in temperate climates.

I might take the Leaf off of my list to consider after my experience checking out battery health on 2 of the vehicles.
Not a big deal if you're a diy'er who dabbles in electrics to pick up one now used. But... If you would've bought one new vs a corolla you would've lost your ass on ownership cost.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Not a big deal if you're a diy'er who dabbles in electrics to pick up one now used. But... If you would've bought one new vs a corolla you would've lost your ass on ownership cost.
Maybe. I don't know what the incentives were like just before the Gen II. The Chevy bolt is discounted about $10k below MSRP as a reference, and nothing is coming to replace the current model.

On top of all that, there's a minimum $10k from state and federal subsidies. If I could get a Leaf $10k below MSRP and $10k back from subsidy, I might be looking at a new $15k Leaf.

I'm about 50/50 new vs used for myself at the moment. Seems unlikely one would lose money if they sold 2 years after purchase.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Honestly, I'd say the Bolt is not a loser. It already has 200+ mile range with LG chem batteries.
The newest Bolt EV has 259 mile range, from its 66kWh pack. Our 2017 with a 60kWh pack, is rated at 238 miles. We regularly see over 300 miles in the summer - the best was 340 miles.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Maybe. I don't know what the incentives were like just before the Gen II. The Chevy bolt is discounted about $10k below MSRP as a reference, and nothing is coming to replace the current model.

On top of all that, there's a minimum $10k from state and federal subsidies. If I could get a Leaf $10k below MSRP and $10k back from subsidy, I might be looking at a new $15k Leaf.

I'm about 50/50 new vs used for myself at the moment. Seems unlikely one would lose money if they sold 2 years after purchase.
True that. Thats 9k less than a Prius in your state. Here thats 6.5k less than a prius. Not a bad deal if you have to have new. The new long range Leaf is a good car. The old one, meh...

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