Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2023, 12:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,029
Thanks: 24,122
Thanked 7,269 Times in 4,687 Posts
'enormous.......... weigh'

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
It's enormous. How much does it weigh?

I see that and it looks like range cut at least in half, best case scenario.
All the physical specifications were given, or estimated within a 97% confidence level at #1 (permalink).
A look, at least at co-creator Toby's video, will provide the quanta actually measured.
The numerical analysis used are of the same species SPACE X will use to go to the Moon and Mars, and what put the Tesla Model 3 on the road.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-23-2023, 02:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,189

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 3,528 Times in 2,802 Posts
No they weren't. If you think going from 55mph to 87mph is only going to cut the range in half your, numbers are hot garbage.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2023, 03:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,071
Thanks: 7,892
Thanked 8,724 Times in 7,192 Posts
You look at the lies, damned lies statistics. I look at the shape.

Chamfered box, just like the Cybertruck. A Baja Bug with a fifth wheel hitch in the middle of the roof would take the tongue weight.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
“You belong to Universe” -- the voice in Bucky Fuller's head
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2023, 05:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,660

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 304
Thanked 1,183 Times in 809 Posts
They need to make a less expensive version without the battery and the electric drive. Just a nice aerodynamic Ho-Lo with some hopefully good build quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2023, 11:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,029
Thanks: 24,122
Thanked 7,269 Times in 4,687 Posts
'hot garbage'

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
No they weren't. If you think going from 55mph to 87mph is only going to cut the range in half your, numbers are hot garbage.
The scientific fact is that:
If a RIVIAN or F-150 LIGHTNING gets 300-miles of range pulling the LightShip at 55-mph, then in order to cut the range down to 150-miles, you'd have to pull the trailer at between the two speeds I posted.
If you want to argue terminal velocities of sky divers in a 'hard-arch' I'll be happy to engage you on that as well.
Physics is physics.
As I've said, Americans do not understand aerodynamics.
Any rebuttal must include mathematics.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 03-31-2023 at 11:12 AM.. Reason: typo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2023, 01:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,071
Thanks: 7,892
Thanked 8,724 Times in 7,192 Posts
Quote:
As I've said, Americans do not understand aerodynamics.
Any rebuttal must include mathematics.
Some Americans put qualifications on discourse.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
“You belong to Universe” -- the voice in Bucky Fuller's head
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2023, 08:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,189

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 3,528 Times in 2,802 Posts
The 300 mile range is too optimistic and towing numbers are too optimistic.
I'm just waiting for someone to actually do it so I can laugh at their excuses when they are hitting chargers every 80 to 110 miles.
I hear lots of optimism and zero experience dealing with electric vehicles. Who's the authority on electric vehice towing around here? Unfortunately that's me and I say any one who buys those numbers is going to end up on the side of the road with a dead battery.
So how much electric towing has everyone done?
I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who has actually done it and agrees with those numbers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2023-03-31-14-49-17-1.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	47.3 KB
ID:	33642  
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 03-31-2023 at 08:47 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2023, 08:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,029
Thanks: 24,122
Thanked 7,269 Times in 4,687 Posts
'The..........'

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The 300 mile range is too optimistic and towing numbers are too optimistic.
I'm just waiting for someone to actually do it so I can laugh at their excuses when they are hitting chargers every 80 to 110 miles.
I hear lots of optimism and zero experience dealing with electric vehicles. Who's the authority on electric vehice towing around here? Unfortunately that's me and I say any one who buys those numbers is going to end up on the side of the road with a dead battery.
So how much electric towing has everyone done?
I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who has actually done it and agrees with those numbers.
*The 300 mile range was measured pulling the fully-operational prototype trailer behind BEV pickups of 300-mile range solo.
*The fully-operational trailer was road-tested and verified by the Airship team members, who created AirShip, and ,are all RV enthusiasts, routinely taking RV trailer camping trips as research.
* I've constructed four streamlined trailers.
* Three are road-tested.
* The worst cost me 4-mpgs.
* The next cost me 2-mpgs.
* Viking is 'invisible', costing zero- mpgs, with zero power assist.
* #4 is expected to produce over-unity, passively.
* BamZipPow's T-100, pulling his 1-wheeler can get 38-mpg when towing, compared to 19-mpg as an OEM pickup, solo.
* I've been towing trailers since 1971, from 18-wheelers with 55-foot flatbeds, to a Honda CRX pulling one and two-wheelers.
* Electric towing isn't any different than ICE towing with a very small fuel tank.
* You don't have any monopoly on towing experience.
* The reason I enrolled in the mechanical engineering program at Texas Tech in 1976 was so I could understand the physics of fuel economy.
* And while my maternal grandfather was the president of an Oklahoma oil company, even he was interested in fuel economy and drove a Rambler. I probably originally heard the term from him on family visits to Ardmore in the 1950s.
* I've done a mathematical proof of AirShip for myself. There's nothing out of line with their claims. You can take everything Hucho published about RV trailers, add in everything Hucho published about the NASCAR two-car draft, and everything Hucho published about aerodynamic singularities, dating to 1922, and figure out how absolutely 'smart' the folks at AirShip are! There reporting aligns well with the 'Logic of Port Royal.' It would be more unbelievable for their claims to be false, than it would be for them to be true.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2023, 09:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,071
Thanks: 7,892
Thanked 8,724 Times in 7,192 Posts
Quote:
Who's the authority on electric vehice towing around here? Unfortunately that's me and I say...
Okay, but seemingly you're wrong about everything else.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
“You belong to Universe” -- the voice in Bucky Fuller's head
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2023, 08:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,189

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 3,528 Times in 2,802 Posts
You seem willing to believe shrills that produce misleading click bait.
MPG aren't electric range. A seemingly insignificant MPG drop on an ice can be huge changes on an electric. If you had experience towing electric you would know this.
What someone did with a 1 wheel trailer that's specifically built to be as least like a normal trailer as possible is irrelevant. What you did with a tractor trailer back in the day is completely irrelevant unless you are planning on buying a tesla semi even then relevance is limited.
I have the monopoly on electric towing experience.
Best thing you can do going from ice towing to electric towing is forget everything you think you know.
I made the same mistakes thinking I could take a known MPG drop with towing the trailer on an ice and use that to predict an effect on EV range.
I immediately realized everything I thought I knew was wrong when the insignificant MPG drop I saw pulling my empty trailer (about 1mpg, less than 4% drop in fuel economy) became a 20% to 25% range reduction when towing electric. I knew electric vehicles were much more efficient and would likely be more sensitive to something like a towing a trailer. I figured the less than 5% MPG reduction would be around a 10% range reduction, worst case scenario a 15% range reduction.
All things you would know if you had any useful experience on the subject. So a trailer that causes a 4mpg reduction you could be looking at range being cut at least in half when that trailer is put behind an electric, under ideal conditions. Once you add cold, cross winds or head wind and running the heat yeah the range could be 1/3 what it was unloaded in warm weather. But you weren't thinking about any of that.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
lies, scam

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com