Methanol in gasoline

[Funny]

Originally Posted by guudasitgets

Funny; what I'm saying is you already have results of engines that have been running on the stuff since the early 60's. What are you trying to power? A model airplane or a car?

A car . I'm talking about getting rid of ethanol in gasoline and using a much better (for your car and the population) fuel source, methanol. I want methanol to replace ethanol in pump gas, and have automobile engines that can handle it without degrading more rapidly. There is really no shortage of wood and cellulose waste, trees are coming down all the time, and other plants can easily be fermented as well. I am sick of corn being used as a fuel source, when it makes a crappy additive and should be used as food in the first place. It is a huge problem for me because my car and my power equipment run like crap on E10, and I can't find straight gas in Taxachusetts because it is mandated that all pump gas is to be a minimum 10 percent ethanol. Even when I go in New Hampshire, I still can't find regular gasoline. I just want a choice, or at the very least, something that doesn't make my stuff run like it's antique farm equipment.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Funny

A car . I'm talking about getting rid of ethanol in gasoline and using a much better (for your car and the population) fuel source, methanol. I want methanol to replace ethanol in pump gas, and have automobile engines that can handle it without degrading more rapidly. There is really no shortage of wood and cellulose waste, trees are coming down all the time, and other plants can easily be fermented as well. I am sick of corn being used as a fuel source, when it makes a crappy additive and should be used as food in the first place. It is a huge problem for me because my car and my power equipment run like crap on E10, and I can't find straight gas in Taxachusetts because it is mandated that all pump gas is to be a minimum 10 percent ethanol. Even when I go in New Hampshire, I still can't find regular gasoline. I just want a choice, or at the very least, something that doesn't make my stuff run like it's antique farm equipment.

AFAIK - the largest percentage of corn that is used to produce ethanol isn't edible to people.. so the only real "waste of food" is that edible food isn't grown on that land.

[guudasitgets]

Funny, youd have to build the engine to just burn Methanol, the fuel you can find, go look at some dirt tack sites and youl find places to buy it. But the engines have to run higher compression, longer duration cams and more advance timeing to start with. Materials won't matter much, your bigger concern is engine mods to run the stuff. And if you never been next to a car running it, all I will tell you, it's enough to make a growen man cry. Also helps to run a magneto and not electronic ignition. This is the one time your better off throwing out the electrnic spark box and just run a straight mag. It's sorta hard to ignite, almost to the point like I said before you need to start it on gasoline.

[Funny]

Originally Posted by guudasitgets

Funny, youd have to build the engine to just burn Methanol, the fuel you can find, go look at some dirt tack sites and youl find places to buy it.

I am talking about replacing ethanol currently found in gasoline blends, not running straight methanol, but I do appreciate the input. Also, Didn't you post earlier about having to flush the system after every race? That would be a tremendous PITA to perform that task after getting home from work.

What I seek to accomplish is allow an engine, made of a specific metal or alloy, to run off a blend of gasoline and methanol, without having ethanol at all, and without breaking down like aluminum and titanium do! It has to be able to be had from a pump, and it has to be able to replace E10 and E15 gasoline (M5 or M10 perhaps?).

I understand that racers use nitro-methanol blends and retard the b-jesus out of them (Isn't it like 55 degrees BTDC?). I want it to be a daily-driver, easy to maintain kind of a car. Thanks for the replies and keep them coming, I love the thought provoking discussions.

[Lazarus]

I have a friend that has a ford tarus and it is a methanol FFV. He says that the only FF you can use on it according to Ford.

In 1996, Ford released a 3.0L Flex Fuel Taurus, followed in 1999 by a Ranger. I have also heard reference made to 2.5L FFV Contours, and some 4.0L and 5.0L FFV Explorers, but have not talked to anyone who has actually seen one. Look for a FFV badge on the right front fender. The only visible differences under the hood are the addition of a flex fuel sensor, associated harness and plumbing, and different colored fuel injector bodies. Stickers on the gas filler door or on the calibration stickers on the doorjamb identify those that are specifically designed for ethanol or methanol

I thought methanol was made from coal. I think it would be another bullet for cutting our
oil use.

Methanol from coal could be a very important source of liquid fuel in our future. Although the costs are prohibitive at this time, the technology is fairly simple and easily implemented. The coal is first pulverized and cleaned, then fed to a gasifier bed where it is reacted with oxygen and steam to produce the synthesis gas. Once these steps have been taken, the production process is much the same as with the other feedstocks with some variations in the catalyst used and the design of the converter vessel in which the reaction is carried out

[Christ]

In the 1980's ford released a Methanol Only version of the Ford Escort, using a 1.6L MHO (Methanol High Output) 4 Cylinder ICE.

I can't find the documentation on it right now though, I'll probably have to dig out an archaic service manual or something to find it.

[guudasitgets]

Funny it's not retarded timing it's advanced timing. When you use Nitro, it really has to take a lot of time to ignite. Thats why when you look at Top-Fuelers they have two mags (2 spark plugs per cylinder) On the flush out statement I made, that is dirt cars and indy cars running straight Methanol and we did that only when the car was torn down or was going to sit during the winter. If you had a gasoline blend it would take a long long time to corrode. We had one engine from a guy that didn't do anything and in spring I took the main fuel pump apart (aluminium) what was inside kinda looked like clear jello, the aluminium breaking down. I have no idea if it were only 10% how long it would take. To guess maybe, years. And there was a mention of making it from coal, heck you can make it from old tires

[Lessendz]

i've done quite a bit of fuel blending with Methanolized gasoline recently..
(over the past 2 years)
small blend mixtures can have BIG effects with absolutely Zero changes to the tune.
Stronger mixtures will require some modifications to the fuel storage/delivery system as well as the tune itself.. (but of course you are now getting into the Power/Performance area)


my background is mostly modification/performance
& the shop i owned housed a Dynojet248
we did quite a bit of import Drift, Drag, & time attack cars
back then... i didn't Fully/clearly understand the internal combustion engine concept
and how Much of the setup & tune is predicated by the *fuel*

i started searching for how to increase MPG's in my truck when pump gas in Hawaii was approaching $4.50/gallon
(our federal + state gas Tax equates to 65cents for Each gallon pumped)
well after quite a bit of Reading googled research papers & a few MIT books
i've come to realize the chemical side of the equation Much better
combustion is a "chemical reaction"
want a better reaction???
start with a better mix of chemicals..


anyways here's my Blending sales pitch..

for less than $1 per tankful of gas
10% more MPG's easily
my V8 tundra goes from 17/18mpg on E10
to 21+mpg on a M8

gasoline is a finicky, inconsistent, laazy fuel for internal combustion engines which operate at varying conditions(throttle/load)
a small percentage of Methanol blended in will help combustion happen quicker & more consistently regardless of EGR or weak/dilute mixture strengths..

methanol in the Gas = #1 racers cheat
problem is the mixture doesn't last..
alcohol will accelerate the evaporation of lighter components within the gasoline out of it..
don't get stuck with stale gas with a funky distillation curve after a few days!!

[Christ]

How long does your M8 last, typically?

Could one expect a tankful to be OK for, say, a week? Two weeks?

[Lessendz]

more like Days..
and depending on local conditions
it may even attract water into the fuel itself..

we have higher humidity here in Hawaii..
Although this didn't seem to be as much of a problem in dry area's of the mainland..
we road trip'd from Vegas to LA on a blend of 8%ethanol & 7% methanol
Over 15% total alcohol in a Nissan 350z (enthusiasts model)
and burned about 1/4 less fuel on the trip cruising @ 90mph thru 100deg weather!!

Although the alcohol evaporates out of the blends rather quickly..
the Toluene left behind turns the gasohol into a high aromatic/octane gasoline
Engines equipped with individual coil pack ignition will usually automatically start make the necessary adjustments on its own..