Metro-powered sports car project

[Bicycle Bob]

"I've got one now, a 32 horsepower Lotus 7 semi-replica painted up like the car in The Prisoner. It's set up for multifuel (petrodiesel, biodiesel, canola oil, Jet A, the list goes on...) and last year it won an over-the-road alternative fuel race from Berkeley to Vegas."

Ahh. Good to have you here. What I don't understand, is why someone who has escaped from Berkeley would go back :-) I wish I could remember a pretty looking Index of Performance car. That whole cab-forward esthetic never really improved, IMHO. It sure has potential for thrifty travel, though. The Lotus Europa, with the full-width windshield was pretty nice, so if you don't need the wide track and narrow greenhouse of a racer, that might be a good place to start sketching.

[JackMcCornack]

Wrote Bicycle Bob:
> What I don't understand, is why someone who has escaped from Berkeley would go back :-)

For one thing, it was a whole lot of fun. It was like time traveling back to over-the-highway long distance races of yesteryear. And not to be ignored, the win paid five grand and we could use another. The second Escape from Berkeley will be spring of 2010, Berkeley to Mexico this time.

> ...if you don't need the wide track and narrow greenhouse of a racer, that might be a good place to start sketching

Track will be standard Metro. and the greenhouse narrower than the space between the tires--there will be room for two in the cockpit but not much extra. The narrow greenhouse reduces frontal area, plus (and I hate to admit this is important, but I don't want to be the only guy that builds one) it'll give the body a racy enough look to excuse the racy doors. The doors will be in the greenhouse only, you'll have to step over the sides of the main body--and when driven as a roadster (roof and side windows removed) it won't have any doors at all. Jes' keepin' it cheap.

[MadisonMPG]

I only read the first page, but it does sound interesting.

I would think that a Civic or something with a more powerful engine would make for a much better car. Although, at 1100 pounds you're dropping 700 pounds out of the car so it may be better than one would expect.

[JasonG]

While he didnt do so well aero wise, a few build tips may be gleaned from

http://rqriley.com

Ive been toying with a cross between his vehicles and a HPV shape.
Looking at MetroMPG's picture, anyone try flipping a metro around ? nearly perfect aero.
Lock the steering rack, flip the engine so its mounted mid and spins right, put a steering rack in the rear(now front), spin the sets and dash.
You'd have to get in Issetta style i guess but it would get looks and be LOCOST

[evolutionmovement]

I'm also going sans doors with a step-over on my trike for rigidity, aesthetic, and because I hate doors. The roof slides back like an aircraft canopy for access as it will basically look like an aircraft with no tail and wings anyway.

[MadisonMPG]

Link doesn't work Jason.

(EDIT: fixed the link. - Darin)

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by MadisonMPG

I would think that a Civic or something with a more powerful engine would make for a much better car. Although, at 1100 pounds you're dropping 700 pounds out of the car so it may be better than one would expect.

Any Civic engine you would put in a car of that weight would be vastly overpowered and leave a pile of efficiency on the table that would be better left on the cutting room floor. (Ooof! Mixed metaphors.)

Head back to Jack's first post and you'll note that among the short list of reasons for undertaking this project, he lists "high fuel economy" first.

(OK, yes, "high fuel economy" is a relative term - some people might feel the ability to get 35 MPG in a 500 hp Corvette is "high" fuel economy.)

But having just read through Jack's Mother Earth blog about his MAX car, I think it's safe to say we're dealing with someone who won't be satisfied with anything less than mileage approaching X-prize territory.

So most Civic engines won't cut it. Maybe the VX lean burn 1.5L might (basjoos is tentatively reporting 100 mpg (US) at 55 mph with the new-to-him VX engine in his super streamlined Aerocivic). The 1.0L Insight engine would for sure, but they're still harder to come by than the dime-a-dozen Suzuki 1.0L mills found in a few hundred thousand aging Metros that GM spat out over the course of a decade or so.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by JackMcCornack

Imagine a short, small, Kammback MR2 with no cup holders and a bit of '60s small displacement Le Mans car styling in the mix.

Imagining is fun.

It'd also be fun to see any doodles you have kicking around! (I have a feeling more than a couple of napkins have met this fate already.)

[jasonck08]

Interesting Idea!

[JackMcCornack]

MadisonMPG wrote he'd think that...
> ...a Civic or something with a more powerful engine would make for a much better car.

...and I'd wager most Americans would agree with you today, and will contimue to agree until gasoline gets to about $7 a gallon. I'm not bothering presenting this on the performance car forums 'cause most of my hot car homies would think I have a screw loose. MetroMPG has me figured out, I'd like to nibble at 100 mpg and I want it to be cheap and easy. Metro engines are cheap and plentiful and pretty darn economical to run, and I believe they'll provide <adeqate> performance though not great performance.

If I do end up putting out a how-to book, I'll at least have to give a nod to performance people. A Swift GTI engine would be an easy swap (at 100 hp) and at less than half the weight of a Miata, it would scoot along pretty well. The Tracker/Sidekick engine is adaptable to the Geo transaxle, it's 1600 cc and there are turbo kits for it. However, having more engine than you need hurts fuel economy so my daily driver is most likely to be a 993cc normally asperated Metro, and I'm keeping my eyes open for an xfi.

Coyote X wrote:
> My main priority would be to keep it strong and easy to work on and if that means it is a bit heavier than you wanted it is no big deal.

I'm with you there. My 1100 pound figure is pretty conservative, I'm very confident I can meet it. My target is 993 pounds but we'll see, and if getting under half a ton makes it overly difficult (or overly expensive) for an amateur to build then I'm willing to slide up to 1100 pounds before kicking myself.

Also...
> Drill a few holes in the thermostat to let more flow through to make up for the long distance the antifreeze has to travel to reach the radiator.

Why? What's it going to do on its way to the radiator? At worst it might cool off a bit. But my intention is to mount the radiator at the back anyway; I'm thinking of mounting it in the low pressure 'hole' of Kamm tail. Less plumbing, less weight, less cost, and in theory at least, hot air back there should reduce drag.