modding a 3rd gen firebird (title change due to free aero)

[skyking]

About raising the window:
I have been looking closely at the photos, and the window corners will be the problem child. I really need to get some pics of one opened up about 8 inches, from several angles.
Oil pan 4, could you prop yours open and shoot it from the side and also from front and rear angles, details of the lower front hatch corners?
That would be a huge boost right there.
If it is not too funky, I can make a set of parts that will close the opened gap very nicely. It has potential anyway.
Edit:
If I could get that nice, I could put a rear vertical glass in it, ala CRX. I always like that window in the CRX.

[racerc2000]

you could keep it real simple. propped open you will need to remove the flat latch area of that hatch as it will angle up


as for roof wings etc the 3rd gen has books of available parts.

I know this may be far fetched and out of most peoples budgets but.

motor swap? yea yea yea I know you already have your heart set on a tdi but.
just wondering cost? and what you expect out of it mpg wise in the end?

was it a v8 stock or v6? I would say the best FE would come from a LS1 swap or
3.6L (2lt) either with a 6spd manual or 6spd auto

7xxlb is heavy. is that with the trans?

generic 305 or 350 that would be period spec would be 575lb
the 2.8l/3.1l is 350lb
3.6l is 370lb
LS1 is all aluminum 390lb
trannys are trannys.
6cyl 4spd auto is 159lb v8 4spd auto is 260lb.
v6 5spd manual is 106lb v6 6spd is 126lb
v8 t56 6spd manual is 121lb

just a thought. I mean aero is good and all but even the most aerodynamic vehicle will be a gas guzzler if it is too heavy. and most rwd diesel trans will be truck gears. and gas trans wont handle the torque.

without changing the outward and inward appearance from stock (full interior etc) an ls1/t56 swap with some fiberglass replacement panels could easily have you 600+lb lighter then stock with a good 150 more hp then the original 350. and you could easily be in the 30mpg range more if you drive economicly.

my 83 RX7 had a ls1/t56 swap modded pushing a healthy 420whp. and it avg 25mpg with far from driving conservatively and 275/315 wide tires.


you could get the fiberglass hatch. and install a normal window in it? it should give the roof length you wanted

[aerohead]

With the John Shinella wheel covers the Trans Am got to Cd 0.29 and change.
I'll think about the hatch.Gotta go.

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by skyking

yeah, some LRRs with full covers in the back, slick moons on the front. maybe I can show it to her with a jack under it

Running drag racing pizza cutter front wheels on both ends would give you quite an advantage. Putting some tall tires on it would help as well. I think you should block it up and ask her what she thinks. Then slowly lower it over several years

For real, though, making the raised hatch look decent is going to be really hard. The bottom front of the rear window, at the corners, is going to stick out to the sides and increase your frontal area. You'll have to deal with smoothing this air out as well.

Do you have the car? Do a tuft test on the C Pillars to see if it's attached.

Louver! Louver! Louver!

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Sven7

Louver! Louver! Louver!

I kind of remember a post, maybe it's a PDF on the aerodynamics of rear window louvers. Would you happen to have something on it? I cannot seem to find it right now.


EDIT: Found it, has a Flow illustrator program video too.

Stepped shape for flow attachment.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ent-17590.html

[skyking]

Racer,
Thanks for the black RS pic.
There is no comparison between a Turbo diesel and a gas engine regarding efficiency. The diesel is between 20% and 30% better thermally. Weight is really not the issue either. Aero is the big player in the game.
The isuzu weighs 175 pounds more than the V-8 i would replace. That is not a big leap, won't require any major suspension changes. I would hazard a guess of high 30's without any aero changes, maybe better.
Go the whole enchilada with front spoiler, belly pan, wheel covers, LRR tires and it should get into the 40's and low 50's.

edit: no, I don't have the car or truck/engine. I think I can get the truck with engine cheap though. they are a highly valued unit.

[oil pan 4]

Good god those pace car wheels are expensive $650 and up, not much selection.
I am working on the pics now.
3rd gen luvers $200-$300, I have heard they can be had for under $150 maybe at a junk yard. I could do $200-$300, its going to be hot here and I have read they can help keep the car a little cooler in the summer.

[oil pan 4]

Need anything else it will have to be when the sun is up.

[skyking]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Need anything else it will have to be when the sun is up.

Thanks! What I had in mind is propping the hatch open on a paint can at the back, about 8". Then shoot a closeup along the side at the front lower corner of the glass, shoot one from the front and the rear along the direction the wind will flow as the car travels. I want to see if the corner of the glass sticks out when the back edge is up about 8". Then shoot one from the side like the ones I posted in the first post, only more straight on and not from above like those ones. Get as far away as you can for that one.
We can compare that to the template.

[oil pan 4]

Yeah I can do that, but require natural light.