Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-14-2008, 05:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 114 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
More natural gas vehicles in the future?

After hearing about demand being almost doubled for the Honda Civic GX, I was surprised to come across this bit of news on GCC:

Quote:
Mercedes-Benz is putting its Sprinter 316 /516 NGT natural gas van into series production, with market launch targeted for May 2008. The company began showing prototypes of the Sprinter NGT at vehicle shows last year. (Earlier post.)

Although Daimler has offered a natural gas version of the Sprinter since 1997, this is the first time the company has built a compressed natural gas version of the Sprinter from first principles. In the past, the NGT Sprinters have used a conversion from a gasoline engine—the M 111 E 23.

The engine on the Sprinter NGT is also applied in Mercedes-Benz passenger cars. Mercedes-Benz uses a bivalent system—the basic engine, a four-cylinder unit with a displacement of 1.8 liters, will also run on gasoline, extending the range of the Sprinter up to 1,200 kilometers (746 miles).
I just spent 16 hours in one of these vans, just wish I had had the option of calculating the mileage for it, . Definitely good rides though.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-14-2008, 05:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
H4MM3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mackinac City, Michigan
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I do hope so. There is a good market for them. Even with limited refueling stations. The Honda Civic GX has a home refueling station which helps.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 05:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 528 Times in 355 Posts
SVOboy -

I heard from someone "in the know" that NG is the big wave of the future too, but I am skeptical. Here in SoCal it is easy because we already have a decent NG infrastructure. But, I can't see that there is enough to go around. As one component in a multi-pronged solution, I could imagine this becoming maybe 5-10% of the cars being driven.

I like the bi-fuel option on the Benz. That's a good idea.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 06:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
The Sprinter has been a great alternative to the Econoline and Full-Sized GM Vans (Express). I'm hoping the new (to the U.S., in 2010) Ford Transit Connect will be a hit too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Wonder what their cents/mile is, what with natural gas at record high prices too.
Good question. Since it involves considerably less refining, it should be cheaper. The savings really comes from the long-life and durability of the high-compression engines. This is an old study from 1999, but it shows NGVs to be ~25% more efficient. If you take the price of gasoline and Natural Gas from this examination, and extrapolate it to today's figures, it should remain constant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H4MM3R View Post
I do hope so. There is a good market for them. Even with limited refueling stations. The Honda Civic GX has a home refueling station which helps.
I've wanted a Phill System and a GX for a while now. It would need to be an early 1.6L with a swapped manual gearbox But the only one's I can find are beat-up city or Airport fleet vehicles. Might be worth a shot -- but the Phill isn't approved in my State (yet )

RH77
__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 06:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 1,329
Thanks: 24
Thanked 160 Times in 106 Posts
The problem with bi fuel systems is that the engine becomes extremely in efficient when running on natural gas. Natural gas has much high octane, lower energy content and takes up move intake volume than gasoline. A pure natural gas engine like the one found on the Civic GX runs much higher compression and completely different engine tuning compared to the gas engine.
The US has much more natural gas than than oil. There are massive deposits in the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic coast of Florida. Natural gas could replace oil if we had the economy incentives.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 07:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
H4MM3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mackinac City, Michigan
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
The problem with bi fuel systems is that the engine becomes extremely in efficient when running on natural gas. Natural gas has much high octane, lower energy content and takes up move intake volume than gasoline. A pure natural gas engine like the one found on the Civic GX runs much higher compression and completely different engine tuning compared to the gas engine.
The US has much more natural gas than than oil. There are massive deposits in the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic coast of Florida. Natural gas could replace oil if we had the economy incentives.
What blows my mind is when they burn off Natural Gas to get at the Oil.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
H4MM3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mackinac City, Michigan
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
tjts1~ Natural Gas Utility Companies, would be another place to look, too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 07:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 1,329
Thanks: 24
Thanked 160 Times in 106 Posts
Gasoline civic engine
Engine Type In-Line 4-Cylinder
Engine Block/Cylinder Head Aluminum-Alloy
Displacement (cc) 1799
Horsepower @ rpm 140 @ 6300
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm) 128 @ 4300
Redline (rpm) 6800
Bore and Stroke (mm) 81 x 87.3
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
Valve Train 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC®

Natural gas civic engine
Engine Type In-Line 4-Cylinder
Engine Block/Cylinder Head Aluminum-Alloy
Displacement (cc) 1799
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net) 113 @ 6300
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm) 109 @ 4300
Bore and Stroke (mm) 81 x 87.3
Compression Ratio 12.5:1
Valve Train 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC®
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 07:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
Liberti
 
LostCause's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Posts: 504

Thunderbird - '96 Ford Thunderbird
90 day: 27.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
The problem with bi fuel systems is that the engine becomes extremely in efficient when running on natural gas.
That could probably be solved with a little effort, though. Two different fuel maps and a turbocharger or variable valve timing would probably go long ways. I'd like to do a quad-fuel conversion (NG, ethanol, methanol, gasoline) to cover all the bases. Can never be too prepared...

Quote:
The US has much more natural gas than than oil. There are massive deposits in the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic coast of Florida. Natural gas could replace oil if we had the economy incentives.
Wyoming has a ton too. Open land there is being pockmarked by thousands of wells. I guess it might be a good short term solution, but it'll only buy time.

- LostCause
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2008, 11:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
budomove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: queens,ny
Posts: 88

Ze Future Beam - '00 honda insight
90 day: 66.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Does Dartmouth have one of these?

Is that how you got down for the Rutgers Cycling Event?

Pretty Cool, I hope we get natural gas busses/taxis in ny soon, there is a filling station going up, and the pollution is nasty.

__________________
2000 Honda Insight 5spd Silver 63.9 lmpg
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diesel- and Hybrid-Powered Vehicles Can Provide More Societal Benefits than Gas-Power SVOboy General Efficiency Discussion 12 04-29-2017 08:03 AM
EcoModding for Beginners: Getting great gas mileage. SVOboy EcoModding Central 55 08-20-2012 11:34 PM
Pick Your Poison - Whose gas to buy? SVOboy General Efficiency Discussion 84 11-22-2010 10:19 PM
In a world where Jeeps get horrible gas mileage.... EcoJeeper Introductions 16 03-26-2009 12:09 PM
A Polluted Future? Big Dave Saving@Home 13 02-14-2008 01:17 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com