MPG-Straight Gas vs E10

[Jim Allen]

I was doing some mpg testing of various products and was trying to find a source of relatively consistent quality gas found that our local NW Ohio Shell (a Top Tier brand) supplier was still using straight gas locally. Cool! Well, about six months and 2/3 of the way through my work, they switched to an E10 blend. Not so cool. Needless to say, it rendered my baseline readings moot and it looks like it cost me a solid 1 mpg (about 5 percent) at 65 mph fwy speeds but less going slower.

If any of you out there have had a similar experience, I'd be interested to hear about it to compare notes, as it were.

[chuckm]

Yeah, my worst tank on my car was using E10 gasoline.

The energy density chart here shows why.

[ankit]

I think that this might not be so bad if your state subsidizes. I think some states give you $.10 per gallon off. This doesn't make up for the whole 5% loss in FE but almost all of it.

[gascort]

Here in St. Louis we have E10 in all of our fuel. Our prices depend on ethanol prices because of it, so sometimes it's less and sometimes more. For awhile now we've been about 20-50 cents more per gallon than the west part of MO where they don't use E10. Some people complain but I'm glad to use a bit of renewable fuel, extending oil availability longer, and I think we need high prices to drive people to change.
If we switched to E10 or E15 as a nationwide standard, prices would go up substantially, and people would complain, but we wouldn't have short-sighted idiots going out and buying more gas guzzlers again because "gas is back to normal"...

[Jim Allen]

chuckm: Interesting (in a disappointing way, of course), that yours was off about 6 percent. I guess we better get used to it. The "wave" of the future, I guess ( : < ( I did some looking and every brand of fuel I checked around here is E10. Some are E-15. Small wonder. Two ethanol plants nearby. If I wanted to set up another farm tank (I have one for my diesel tractors), I can get straight gas from my fuel supplier. Might not be such a bad idea, except that it would go stale pretty fast. They won't come out for less than a 100 gallon delivery and they whine about that. That's about two-plus months of driving for us with the pickup and the car. Maybe more.

ankit: Alas, no subsidy and no apparent reduction in price. I don't see government subsidies as any gain because, ultimately, it comes out of mine, or someone else's, pocket anyway. Somehow, some way. Everyone should pay their own freight as much as possible.

[ankit]

My parents (own gas stations) said that the stations in Virginia will be mandated to do the whole "Contains 10% ethanol" thing by some deadline. This has it's pro's and con's but more con's at this moment.

The stations have to pay about $1500 each to get their tanks cleaned out before they make the transformation. Lower fuel economy, while paying at least the amount of regular 87 octane. Higher food prices (ultimately leads to starvation, at least in other countries).

But, farmers (which make-up a lot of the locality) have the ability to make a little money. Renewable source of energy, a huge plus.

The food think makes me weary of supporting the ethanol movement.

Maybe the use of ethanol should be continued but in moderation.

[KJSatz]

E10 is mandated throughout Missouri.

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted by ankit

But, farmers (which make-up a lot of the locality) have the ability to make a little money. Renewable source of energy, a huge plus.

The food think makes me weary of supporting the ethanol movement.

Maybe the use of ethanol should be continued but in moderation.

The problem is that you have to input so much energy, and a lot of water, to make ethanol that it's only sustainable with subsidies. Renewable... yes but at a cost in non-renewable energy and a net loss until the technology and source of biomass is improved. And I'm a farmer, albeit a small one.

By the way, there is a very new study on the use of ethanol blends.

Vehicle Technologies Program: Effects of Intermediate Ethanol Blends on Legacy Vehicles and Small Non-Road Engines, Report 1

It's ongoing. Covers small engines too, which are more negatively effected. In the cars they tested, E-10 averaged a 3.88 percent mpg loss. E-15 was about six percent. Other troubles too. Read for yourself. Not good, in balance.

[Lazarus]

Here's a link showing that some cars get better FE with blends over 10%. It's from the corn folks so it is a little bias but there are others that back it up. I found that I've gotten better mileage with a E20 blends in 2.0l, 3.0l v6, and 1.6l engines. Of course your mileage may very.

[2000mc]

i'd say my sc1 gets roughly 3% better FE when its not running e10

but in iowa 89octane is e10, and is cheaper than 87octane w/o ethanol. the price difference is adjusted every so often that typically price per gallon more than offsets the increased mileage.