must be a government conspiracy

[bandit86]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

If it's the government's fault that consumers prefer gas hogs whenever their budgets allow it, then yes it's a government conspiracy.

lol, i dont blame the government for everything. All this thread starting was that all economy cars look like a pos, if abit more design went into it, it would be cool. But once it becomes cool the price goes up so it's a no win situation. moe like Catch 22.

I wouldnt buy a new car as I dont see one I like and I dont usually drive enough to justify a new car. But say an awsome brand new 1970 ish mini cooper showed up at a dealers lot with 30miles I'd run down and get it if it's priced reasonable

[Frank Lee]

No doubt; I LOVE the old Minis while the new ones have almost 0 appeal to me

Did you know that several European car mfgs are now selling cars with NO OIL DIPSTICK?!? Yah, they say that the consumer no longer uses it anyway.

I don't know if it's possible to be any more out of touch.

[autoteach]

Well, BMW for one does ship their cars without a dipstick, but you use the cars computer to check it once it has warmed up, and on level ground.

[texanidiot25]

Safety, luxury, and size are the issue. All add copious amounts of weight. You'd be shocked at how much the wiring alone weighs in a car. No longer will people buy a new car that is sans a/c, radio, power this and that, etc etc. An interior sound level of an 80s compact car is nearly unacceptable with today's NVH standards (not an official number, but they try to keep them low).

Plus, how the can you show off your greenitude with out a Hybrid sticker on the side? Hybrids are the rage, despite their price premium..

The days of the light weight stripper model are gone, out side of work trucks and "body in white" muscle cars.

[comptiger5000]

While I might not always shop for the most efficient vehicle, I go for something that meets my needs (going away to college in the fall in upstate NY, so it needs to deal with a foot or more of snow, and have room for plenty of stuff).

Also, I agree with what was said about buying older cars at a fraction of the cost. I'd much rather have a really nice 10 year old car than a really cheap, low-end new car. Plus, older cars don't come with all this stability control, we don't trust the driver crap.

I don't mind ABS, but traction control/stability control are just stupid in my eyes. There are times where I've seen cars get stuck in the snow with traction control and everything. Once the driver turned it off, with a little work, they got out just fine.

[blownb310]

Originally Posted by texanidiot25

No longer will people buy a new car that is sans a/c, radio, power this and that, etc etc. The days of the light weight stripper model are gone, out side of work trucks and "body in white" muscle cars.

I thought so too, but was delighted to see that Kia and Hyundai still sell strippers. I checked last week and you can get the Rio and Accent models without A/C. radio, and power windows. A local dealer here in Albany has radio ads this week for 28 new Kia Rio's in stock for just $7995 each!

Mike

[Clev]

Originally Posted by Fr3AkAzOiD

My point is, what was once considered a compact is now considered a sub compact.
The late '80s Sentra 4 door was 168 inches long and weighed 2500 lbs, the 4 door Cobalt is 180 inches long and weighs 2750 lbs, while the sub-compact Chevrolet Aveo 4 door is 170 inches long and weighs 2544 lbs.

So now that we realise we need to compare apples to apples take what was considered a mid size car in the '80's.

I posted a comparison a couple of months ago about a '90 Accord vs. an '09 Civic. Essentially, they were within a few percentage points of each other in every interior size measurement, as well as weight, horsepower, etc. The current-model Civic has side impact beams, a multitude of airbags, ABS and traction control (the Accord had none of these), and the Civic is better equipped and cheaper on an inflation-adjusted basis and gets much better mileage than the old Accord.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Lazarus

It's not a government conspiracy it what the vast majority of people want to buy in the US. Do you see any sub compacs in here?

But what I want to buy is a sports car, not one of those overfilled muffin-tin subcompacts. They may both be small, but there are few other similarities.

As for whether people want to buy them, there's a community out there that drives, rebuilds, and performance-enhances the CRX, Del Sol, Miata, and even the small Honda Civics of that era. It's either do that, or save up for a Lotus. So there is, apparently, a market out there that's not being filled by the major automakers.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by MadisonMPG

I doubt safety/emissions has lowered gas mileage that much. Price, yeah, maybe a little. At least one of them will walk away unhurt in a wreck.

I think emissions -- or, more correctly, the cost of getting engines certified for use in the USA -- is a big factor keeping clean diesels out of the country. Like this one:

Frankfurt Preview: 2010 BMW 320d Efficient Dynamics Edition, 57.4 mpg (U.S.) — Autoblog Green

Or this one:

VW Polo BlueMotion Tops 70 MPG | GreenCar.com

Safety by itself probably isn't a big factor in MPG...but the concept of 'safety over everything' is one of those ideas that keeps people buying SUVs because they think they're 'safer'.

[texanidiot25]

Originally Posted by blownb310

I thought so too, but was delighted to see that Kia and Hyundai still sell strippers. I checked last week and you can get the Rio and Accent models without A/C. radio, and power windows. A local dealer here in Albany has radio ads this week for 28 new Kia Rio's in stock for just $7995 each!

Mike

That's impressive! Leave it to the Koreans to still keep things behind modern standards, not that it's an issue for what we're talking about.

Originally Posted by jkp1187

I think emissions -- or, more correctly, the cost of getting engines certified for use in the USA -- is a big factor keeping clean diesels out of the country. Like this one:

Safety by itself probably isn't a big factor in MPG...but the concept of 'safety over everything' is one of those ideas that keeps people buying SUVs because they think they're 'safer'.

Emissions standards in the US are much higher than those in EU for diesels. It's funny, the same group of politicians that push for higher fuel economy regulations also push for stricter emissions regulations, that keep some of these diesels out of the country.

Safety adds weight, and lots of it. Grab an air bag, now multiply it by a few times. Now add in the wiring, the impact sensors, and the computer(s) that manages all this. Add in the structural changes in cars over time, the body shells alone are most likely heavier and much stronger.

More often than not though, luxury adds most. Lots of wiring, sound deadening, electronics, etc etc at several hundreds of pounds. Modern cars are on par with the weight of 1960s land yachts! A '64 Impala is not much heavier than the current Impala, if I'm not mistaken.

It's really become a bit sad.