Mythbusters: Is a bike greener than a car?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by sendler

Saying that you are running the speed limit doesn't tell us anything.

Neither does the actual speed tell us much, unless we know what the road's like. For instance, I drive one stretch of US 50 quite often. (Several times a week in summer.) Going west, I will be going 45-55 mph, and getting about 30-35 mpg. Going east on the same road, I go 55-60, and get 150+ mpg (essentially infinite, as it's in DFCO mode). The trick is the 6% grade.

That's why claiming mpg on particular "runs" can be pretty misleading. Start at the top of a mountain pass, or have a good tailwind, and you can get pretty impressive mpg. I've posted a picture some time ago, showing 150 mpg over a "run" of 69 miles, but I didn't get anything like that going back the other way :-)

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

When I lurk about how "eco-friendly" a motorcycle can be, I'm not thinking about a Harley-Davidson or something similar to that.

What comes in mind for a 3rd-world guy regarding cheap-to-run and fuel-efficiency is something like this:

Honda Biz, made in Brazil, currently available with a 125cc air-cooled engine with EFI and catalytic converter. In spite of the air cooling being often deemed inefficient, since it doesn't require a synthetic cooling fluid which will have to be blended with clean water and often replaced it still sounds more "sustainable" at the long run.

Or that

Honda NXR 150, also made in Brazil, and available with a flexfuel engine able to run on E100 or E96h ethanol, also air-cooled fitted with EFI and cat.

Or this one

Yamaha Ténéré 250, also made in Brazil, and fitted with another air-cooled engine with EFI and cat.

They still provide a fuel-efficiency comparable to some random hybrids, while their lifetime footprint from manufacturing to end-of-life disposal remains more energy-efficient than any subcompact car, and their emissions are not lower just per mile but also per gallon, since they're enforced to meet the same emission standards as a car.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by sendler

Saying that you are running the speed limit doesn't tell us anything. 50 mph is pretty slow regardless of what the speed limit is compared to interstate highway driving.

I guess that is where you and I disagree ... on the use of the phrase 'pretty slow'.

For me:
50MPH is not pretty slow in a 25MPH posted speed limit zone ... or a grocery store parking lot ... if anything it is 'way too fast' for either of those ... etc ... but by all means , tell the police officer giving you the ticket it was 'pretty slow' ... For me ... 50MPH is 'pretty slow' in areas where the posted speed limit is ~60MPH or above... I would technically call it 'pretty slow' in a 56mph or above ... but it jumps from 55 to 60.

That is why for me my speed in relation to the posted speed limit , completely determines weather it is 'pretty slow' or not... if you are not using that phrase the same way ... if anything and everything less than 65mph is 'pretty slow' no matter where you are or what the posted speed limit is ... than you just aren't using the phrase to mean the same thing I am.

Without something like a posted speed limit for a reference ... any speed can be 'pretty slow' ... and thus the phrase itself is meaningless ... 100 mph is 'pretty slow' compared to the speed of sound ... the speed of sound it 'pretty slow' compared to the speed of light ... the speed of light is 'pretty slow compared to Warp 2 ... Warp 2 is 'pretty slow' compared to a worm hole ... etc... etc... there is always a faster speed and any speed would be 'pretty slow'.

Originally Posted by sendler

That is why I was wondering about what your average speed was in order to get results that are so far above the average for the Gen1 Insight which is about 60 mpgUS.

And that makes sense ... which is why I posted MetroMPG's MPG vs MPH chart ... which you immediately rejected ... Forgetting for a moment what you expect the MPG vs MPH to be ... what about MetroMPG's testing method do you disagree with? ... if there is no serious flaw in the testing method ... then the data is the data ... no matter how different it might be from what was expected.

- - - - - - - -

I get above the EPA ~60 MPG average because I drive more efficiently than the EPA cycle ... that's all their is to it.

I don't draft ... although that can help others who do it.
I drive a Manual Transmission.
I do drive in Lean Burn as much as is reasonably possible.
I do conservation of momentum.
I predict other drivers ahead of me.
I make an effort to avoid lower efficiency BSFC conditions for the ICE.
I have a few minor mods: MIMA, FAS, OBDIIC&C
I try to avoid driving more than 5 mph over the speed limit.

- - - - - - - - -

The phrase ... YMMV ... 100% applies ... even with my same driving methods ... MPG at the same MPH will still vary at different temperatures ... head wind or tail wind ... up hill vs down hill ... rain vs not ... steady speed vs stop start ... etc ... etc... I'm not saying 70MPG is possible in any conditions ... that would be wrong ... but it is possible that and better has been done by people ... for whole tanks of gas ... at highway speeds ... for over 120,000 miles ... .etc.

[roosterk0031]

The whole problem with this whole discussion is the fact that the average car last 150-200,000 miles, average bike 10,000 maybe 15,000, doesn't matter if the bike takes 1/10 the materials if it thrown away long before any fuel saving come to payback. Yeah there's the odd Ninja 250 that goes 100,000 miles, but 10 for it that are killed before 10,000.

Economy car better than bikes for all but the best motorcyclist/ecoridders IMO.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

When I lurk about how "eco-friendly" a motorcycle can be, I'm not thinking about a Harley-Davidson or something similar to that.

Exactly.
That kind of bikes often uses as much fuel as a car for a given distance - though at a different fun factor .
At least in the EU, bikes lag far behind on the emission standards compared to cars.

So unless you get a very fuel efficient bike, say up to 250cc , it's worse than a small, modern car ...

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

When I lurk about how "eco-friendly" a motorcycle can be, I'm not thinking about a Harley-Davidson or something similar to that.

The problem there is that most of us don't think of your kind of bike as a motorcycle at all. They're in the same class as scooters.

[3-Wheeler]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

.... the average bike 10,000 maybe 15,000, doesn't matter if the bike takes 1/10 the materials if it thrown away long before any fuel saving come to payback......

I have a 1986 VF500 with 125,000 miles on it.

New gasket kit at 96,000.

Does that count?

Jim.

[fidalgoman]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

The problem there is that most of us don't think of your kind of bike as a motorcycle at all. They're in the same class as scooters.

A few dictionary descriptions.

Motorcycle: Also called: motorbike; a two-wheeled vehicle, having a stronger frame than a bicycle that is driven by a petrol engine, usually with a capacity greater than 125 cc. Most states also stress that the engine is straddled by the riders legs. (vs. at the rear wheel ala scooter.)

Motor-scooter: Often shortened to: scooter a light motorcycle with small wheels and an enclosed engine. Usually limited to less than 250 cc.

Moped: A motorized bicycle that has pedals in addition to a low-powered gasoline engine designed for low-speed operation. In many states 50 cc or less. Many do not actually have pedals and have a legal limit of 35 MPH.

Motor Bicycle: A bicycle that is propelled by an attached motor.

I do know what you're saying though.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler

AlienMobile - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Actual Fuel Economy Performance
Lifetime 85.49 mpg(US)
Last 3 tanks 104.7 mpg(US)
90 days 98.46 mpg(US)

Where did you get your magic Insight?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

The whole problem with this whole discussion is the fact that the average car last 150-200,000 miles, average bike 10,000 maybe 15,000, doesn't matter if the bike takes 1/10 the materials if it thrown away long before any fuel saving come to payback. Yeah there's the odd Ninja 250 that goes 100,000 miles, but 10 for it that are killed before 10,000.

An average motorcycle can last the same lifespan a car is going to last.