Need suggestions Gas Water Heater, timers, blankets, most efficient?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I thought you turned it up at night and down in the morning.

I turn it up then down all in one swell foop.

I did but then I changed behaviors and found that the water is always warm enough anyway.
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Hmm, it appears that my water heater turns on and off instantly based on the thermostat position.

If i run the heater for 15-20 minutes (I ended up running longer than expected) while taking a shower one day, I can leave the thing off and have warm enough water to shower the next day. Water is on the edge or cold by the day after that if I wash dishes or do anything else.

If I do nothing the water seems to be warm enough after a full 3 days! But apparently not longer.

So it appears that I can keep warm water about 48 hours guaranteed after the burner has been run a while set to the lowest warm setting.

I guess I can tolerate a 15minute burn every other day.

Also when I turned the water heater back to vacation (after 20m( it was still running, but quit instantly once turned down,
so for me manual control is the only option,
we shall see if this affects my gas bill significantly (I think it will)

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Anyone have a source of insulation for the cap of a gas water heater? There don't seem to be any available anymore with the cutouts.

Cheers
Ryan

[rmay635703]

Well an update, I went on 3 days without going off pilot and had a luke warm shower, it was good enough, only had a small amount of dish cleaning, so 3 days is about the limit, will see what its like day 4 :-)

[Iexpedite]

My wife is an uncontrollable hot water user in my house. She isn't happy unless she exits the shower with the skin tone of a boiled lobster. I like my shower at a much more comfortable level. In the past I have taken military showers where I turn the water off while soaping up then rinsing off then getting out. I find that long hot showers are one of the simple joys in life that I don't want to do without. Some things I am willing to pay full price for...a shower is one.

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by Iexpedite

My wife is an uncontrollable hot water user in my house. She isn't happy unless she exits the shower with the skin tone of a boiled lobster. I like my shower at a much more comfortable level. In the past I have taken military showers where I turn the water off while soaping up then rinsing off then getting out. I find that long hot showers are one of the simple joys in life that I don't want to do without. Some things I am willing to pay full price for...a shower is one.

I'm the same way- I like a good hot shower, but would like to reduce my gas bill as well.

I have been turning the water heater thermostat down a bit every day this week, and finally found the point that I can take a shower without turning the cold water on to balance out the water temperature. It's one notch away from "low". Perfect! Now it'd be nice to get some insulation on there to make it run less often.

[Iexpedite]

Originally Posted by Sven7

finally found the point that I can take a shower without turning the cold water on to balance out the water temperature.

I was wondering if that was the most efficient point? In my house we mix some cold but empty our hot water heater frequently. I wonder if there is a point where you are better off with hotter water mixed with cold and not emptying the (in my case) 50 gallon vessel? Run all that water out and you end up with 50 gallons of water with a starting temperature of say 50 degrees being heated up to your shower temp.

As with most things I imagine you can go wrong in either direction...I just wonder where that middle ground lies.

One thing I have done is turned off hot water to my bathroom sink. I used to turn it on out of habit but would be finished washing before the hot water got to me. I was basically putting hot water into the pipes and putting cold water in the water heater for no reason.

[Xist]

I grew up in California during a drought and have done "Navy" showers since, but the one thing that my ex-girlfriend did better than me was take short showers.

She smelled clean...

I remember some comedian saying he did not believe that anyone actually got in the shower before turning on the water. I definitely do not like having water hit me like that, but it bothered me to waste water while it is warming up.

So, now I get in first. I usually turn off the water to lather while the water is still cold.

TMI, if you ask me...

[Sven7]

I think that heating up the water for the rest of the day when you're not showering is probably more of a waste of hot water than it would be to heat up a new tank full, since it's likely going to heat up a tank full anyway. It'll just take time. Maybe you could take a shower at night and your SO could take one in the morning... that way, even with a low heat setting, you'll both have enough hot water.

Another option would be to get a low-flow shower head and set it on the "eco" setting- it will use less (hot) water. I'm trying to get this done but the end of the L pipe that comes out of the wall won't unscrew.

The expensive solution to the "waiting for hot water game" is a recirculation system. My parents have one and it's awesome. You push a button on the wall, wait a minute, and when you turn on the faucet/shower, hot water comes out. Unfortunately I imagine it would be a money- and time-consuming thing to retrofit.

[rmay635703]

[QUOTE=Sven7;473271Another option would be to get a low-flow shower head and set it on the "eco" setting- it will use less (hot) water. I'm trying to get this done but the end of the L pipe that comes out of the wall won't unscrew.

You push a button on the wall, wait a minute, and when you turn on the faucet/shower, hot water comes out. Unfortunately I imagine it would be a money- and time-consuming thing to retrofit.[/QUOTE]

The reality is hot water takes a certain number of BTUs to heat and a certain number to maintain.

We have full control over the maintain part which is small in terms of cost (timer or intervention)

Only things left are the number of gallons of usage and the efficiency of the water heater.

So a good low flow shower head, even an expensive one that pressurizes with air is well worth it because the single biggest expense is heating water you use. (that literally goes down the drain.)

If you enjoy a hot shower you will find that if you decrease the flow of water (but increase pressure) you will want the water temperature higher. (ask me how I know)
This will increase standby losses but they are very small compared to the cost of heating water down the drain so saving water always trumps temperature.

I don't mind a hot shower on occasion but I treat my hot water heater as something I turn on when I am going to be using it (thanx frank) But day to day, unless I am cold, sick or in the mood a luke warm shower is fine.

In the case of just increasing the water temperature to save hot water this will decrease the amount of hot water used but the cost of heating it is higher and the losses in the hot water pipes become much higher. (also you will have to adjust the temperature as you shower because it will take much longer for the hot water pipes to get up to the full temp) So you will end up spending more but you won't run out of hot water as easily.

Insulation is still very cheap, very worthwhile to insulate the pipes going up to your shower properly and obviously the water heater, this will save money, water and make it take less time to get hot water to the shower. A win win win in my mind.

As for me, I can tolerate lukewarm water 95% of the time but do enjoy a hot shower in the dead of winter, since I can adjust the temperature I will just modulate it when I'm in the mood, I also am going to insulate (R19 on tanks and R6 on pipes) and install a more expensive than normal low flow shower head.

I have a feeling that Iexpedite would benefit from a 70%+ efficient gas water heater but would have to watch payback quickly, plain and simple if you use a lot of hot water you will get a lot more payback, even in the case of my parents its is about $70 a month (and they aren't even that high of useage people) going from the base heater to an 81% EFF condensing model but that is still a payback of 10+ years for them but not if you live outside the midwest and use a lot of water.

Likewise he would GREATLY benefit from a heat exchanger that heats the incoming water, this could easily cut 20% off his bill but he would have to be crafty and build it himself.


Good Luck, I have my solution
Ryan

[Iexpedite]

I estimate my electric hot water usage costs $30. per month. My thermostat tracks my central units hours and I have tested all plug in 110v appliances. I have two months per year with no central unit use and they average less than $70. The plug in 110 stuff costs about $30 per month. That leaves about 40 bucks. The only things I can't test are the cooktop, clothes drier, oven and HWH. I believe the HWH uses the majority of that so I estimate it to be in the $30. per month range. Payback would be a long time in coming on a high efficiency unit. On a side note I have become pretty good at calculating my electric bill based on central unit runtimes.

Tangent follows....I have considered installing a solar HWH. The payback would be terrible, but having warm/hot water during a power outage would be great. My house is completely electric and I worry about long term outages. Before I moved here there was an ice storm that left the area without power for 2 weeks. I purchased a 2000W Yamaha generator for emergency backup. I could have gone larger but if I lose power then many of the local gas stations will too. My genny uses 1 gallon every 12 hrs...that's a requirement I can sustain for several weeks with fuel I have on hand. A larger generator can easily use 10 gallons every 12hrs. For heat I purchased a Kerosene heater and a sealed drum of Kerosene (21 days). I have a camp stove/propane grill/propane buddy heater/propane burner/lanterns and 100 hour emergency candles to round out the cold weather survival plan. Other than heating water on a burner and dumping it into a tub, I have no good way of heating water for bathing.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Iexpedite

I estimate my electric hot water usage costs $30. per month.

For heat I purchased a Kerosene heater and a sealed drum of Kerosene (21 days). I have a camp stove/propane grill/propane buddy heater/propane burner/lanterns and 100 hour emergency candles to round out the cold weather survival plan. Other than heating water on a burner and dumping it into a tub, I have no good way of heating water for bathing.

Interesting you are on the very low end of normal for electric heating, with electric you can fully control your hot water on a timer for little of anything.

And yes on electric and relatively low use it takes forever to pay back (7-15 years)

But a timer pays back right away, because you likely don't need water to be as hot for general dish and cleaning use so you can leave the thing off during those times and still have warm water.

Also a water exchanger would make you run out of hot water less often because fewer BTUS are required to heat the water meaning your water heater would get it up to snuff faster. (also your water heating system COEFFICIENT would improve a fair amount)

Ah well, you are already pretty efficient.

Good Luck
Ryan