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Old 02-28-2020, 01:35 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I'd like to see 1 motor per wheel for full stability, traction, acceleration, and regen ability.

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Old 02-29-2020, 08:37 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Gear reduction has significant advantages over hub motors.

Another good point where hub motors lose big time.
Pretty much all your electric vehicle motors with regen are synchronous AC motors.
If you know how a synchronous AC motor works, how's that going to go into a hub motor that's exposed to the elements?
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Old 03-01-2020, 04:14 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
No highway driven hub motor has been able to outlast a set of tires.
This is also my understanding.

There are announcements of new and awesome hub motors, much fanfare ... and then no more information. Some of the companies actually DENY having produced hub motors just a couple of years after the announcement.

Does anyone have examples of Hub motors (not e-bikes) where the motors last at least 50,000 miles?
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Old 03-01-2020, 06:52 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Nope.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:06 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Hub motors are great for getting uninformed investors to buy into your EV that will never see the light of day. You need something new and revolutionary that the established auto makers haven’t thought of.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:26 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
This is also my understanding.

There are announcements of new and awesome hub motors, much fanfare ... and then no more information. Some of the companies actually DENY having produced hub motors just a couple of years after the announcement.

Does anyone have examples of Hub motors (not e-bikes) where the motors last at least 50,000 miles?
Even if they only lasted 50,000 miles, if the cost was low and they were easy to swap it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I know mail delivery so I'll use this example. We don't put a ton of miles on, most trucks are under 20 miles a day. We already go through a $1000 set of Goodyear Wranglers every 2 years tops, about 10,000 miles. We go through a $1500 transmission in about the same time, and an engine might make it 50,000 miles at $3500. Usually it will need plugs, wires, coils, and module twice in that time at $500. I won't even count the belt and tensioner failures, the timing chain and water pump failures, the new radiators, and the fuel pumps.

So drop the tires because no matter what we have that cost (although switching to 15" would probably cut the price in half). At 50,000 miles we have spent $7500 in ICE repair, not counting the at least $13,000 in gas that truck has burned over 50,000 miles (best case they get 10, many get more like 8mpg).

If you could keep the hub motors under $2000 each and they did last 50,000 miles we would still be way ahead with that.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:49 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Cost is not going to be low. Dealers want $100 an hour. Swapping a hub moror would be at least as involved as repairing a CV joint. They are going to get at least an hour labor on each one.
If you want to throw money away on an almost new vehicle for no reason get a VW.
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Old 03-02-2020, 06:19 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Cost is not going to be low. Dealers want $100 an hour. Swapping a hub moror would be at least as involved as repairing a CV joint. They are going to get at least an hour labor on each one.
If you want to throw money away on an almost new vehicle for no reason get a VW.
Well, we don't use dealers unless it's something still under warranty, we use independent contractors and each area negotiates the rate with the shop, basically a lowest bidder kind of thing. We pay $80/hour, I'm sure some places are well over $100/hr. An hour labor would be cake, even times 4, but just driving the 2 rear wheels would be a better comparison to what we have now. Nothing happens with less than a 1/2 hour charge and a $5 disposal fee. They also will only do stuff one at a time as it fails, never preemptive. Having at least 2 motors would be pretty great as I doubt both would fail together which would eliminate a bunch of $90 tow bills as one motor still finishes the route and self powers to the shop. It also keeps the carrier from sitting at possibly $64/hr waiting for a new truck which we don't have. A single coil failure now pretty much also buys a $90 tow bill in addition to 1/2 hr diagnosis, and 1 hour repair, in addition to the part costs.

My point is hub motors may be unreliable, but I'm not sure that's new in the delivery business. There must be something positive about them on why LMC would be giving them a try vs other electric drives.
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Old 03-02-2020, 07:53 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
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My point is hub motors may be unreliable, but I'm not sure that's new in the delivery business. There must be something positive about them on why LMC would be giving them a try vs other electric drives.
The only advantage is packaging. With an inboard motor connecting to the wheel by a driveshaft you lose space inside the frame rails that could be used for more batteries. The downside is everything else: cost, weight, reliability.

Replacing motors every 50,000 miles is a huge deal compared to replacing a CV joint every 100K miles or so. If you want a dead simple and robust system you can just mount the motor onto a live axle.

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Old 03-02-2020, 08:31 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Now a days cv joints and grease last until the boot fails.

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