Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-24-2020, 03:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,858

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,359
Thanked 2,863 Times in 1,801 Posts
More details on the hub motors:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...eel-hub-motors

__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-24-2020, 05:09 PM   #42 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 16,091
Thanks: 4,223
Thanked 5,420 Times in 4,315 Posts
Very little more. A few shots in the 1:31 video. Did I miss something?
__________________
.

Who controls the memes
Controls the Universe

_________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 07:26 PM   #43 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,669

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 210
Thanked 2,862 Times in 2,238 Posts
Targeted towards commercial users, as in hopefully no highway driving.
If they use hub motors I await the fails to start rolling in.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 02:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 221

Boulevard - '09 Suzuki Boulevard C50

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback
Thanks: 127
Thanked 80 Times in 58 Posts
I definitely see hub motors as being ok for city/urban duty cycle (lower speeds, on road). So, buses, school buses, trashtrucks, mail trucks, etc.

I do not know for sure, but would assume bad shock or vibration would not be great for hub motors.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 12:50 AM   #45 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,669

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 210
Thanked 2,862 Times in 2,238 Posts
No highway driven hub motor has been able to outlast a set of tires.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
Flakbadger (02-28-2020), thingstodo (03-01-2020)
Old 02-28-2020, 09:33 AM   #46 (permalink)
Always Too Busy
 
Flakbadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 518

White Lightning - '17 Nissan Leaf SV
Team Leaf
90 day: 160.38 mpg (US)
Thanks: 385
Thanked 151 Times in 117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
No highway driven hub motor has been able to outlast a set of tires.
Why?

I don't know much about hub motors--and I remember the project from whatever college where they were trying to make a retrofit kit to put hub motors on the rear axles of smaller cars (replacing drum brakes) to make any vehicle into a hybrid. You're saying the motors wear out within like 30,000-40,000 miles?

I always thought it was a genius idea and I even went so far as to contact the college in question at the time to ask them about it for my Yaris.

But if the motors wear out super quick I guess the whole thing is bogus. Is this an engineering problem, IE make a better hub motor, or something to do with the design that makes them prone to failure?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 09:57 AM   #47 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 1,108
Thanks: 79
Thanked 292 Times in 248 Posts
Probably a design/engineering issue. Typically they require a very small air gap between the rotor and stator. So you end up with bearing wear and thermal expansion issues, which could be resolved by better design and materials. Downside is they get bigger and heavier which increases the unsprung weight, a bad juju consideration.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 09:57 AM   #48 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 221

Boulevard - '09 Suzuki Boulevard C50

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback
Thanks: 127
Thanked 80 Times in 58 Posts
Total speculation on my part, but I assume that the hub motor being a mass added to the unsprung part of the drive train is subject to a lot of shocks and vibrations.

At lower speeds, these will not be so bad, but at highway speed, or even over 45 MPH, the force will be enough to cause issues, either in the metal that makes up the hub motor, or the epoxy (or what have you) that keep the windings and/or magnets in place.

I did some quick googling, but the scientific papers I came across I was not sure if they even applied, so I didn't link to them.

Protean, which makes in-wheel hub motors, says if made correctly, it is not a problem... but most of their current products are in urban, lower speed vehicles, like buses.

Quote:
Yet another concern that has been voiced about in-wheel motors is their supposed lack of durability. Placing the motors in the wheels, as opposed to under the hood, means they will get battered when the car travels over rough roads. They’ll also be pelted by water, sand, gravel, and all the other *detritus we drive over on a regular basis. Yes, these conditions could pose a problem, but we’ve shown through extensive real-world testing that it’s perfectly possible to engineer a product that can hold up to the beating.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/transporta...more-efficient
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 10:55 AM   #49 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,669

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 210
Thanked 2,862 Times in 2,238 Posts
In classical motor design you want as small a gap as possible between the rotor and stator. In smaller motors it's usually 1mm or less. When the bearings start to go you lose control of that gap real quick.
The problem appears to be when you add a motor to a hub it becomes so heavy it beats the bearings to death.
Now on something like a full float barrel bearing in an oil bath like on heavy duty truck axles the bearings should be able to hold up even with a ridiculous amount of mass on either side of the bearings.
It could work on a truck, but no one is going to put huge full float oil bath axles on a car.
It's easier to do what nissan, tesla and GM have all done.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
Flakbadger (02-29-2020), ldjessee00 (02-28-2020)
Old 02-28-2020, 01:20 PM   #50 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 16,091
Thanks: 4,223
Thanked 5,420 Times in 4,315 Posts
IMHO this is better:


https://insideevs.com/news/327855/zf...urban-vehicle/

Move the motor out of the hub and you can add gear reduction.

__________________
.

Who controls the memes
Controls the Universe

_________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
Flakbadger (02-29-2020)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com