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Old 08-26-2009, 01:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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new to forum truck owner miler

Hi everyone. I use a truck for my transportation and am interested in a supplemental electric propulsion particularly for stop & go traffic, I believe its called a parallel hybrid. I will search here to see what has been done here along those lines, and motor and controller info.

Thanks,

James

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Old 08-26-2009, 02:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Welcome to the site James.

Your setup has been done before, so its definitely doable. However, it won't be cheap or easy! Good luck with it. We'll help out where we can.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droptail View Post
Hi everyone. I use a truck for my transportation and am interested in a supplemental electric propulsion particularly for stop & go traffic, I believe its called a parallel hybrid. I will search here to see what has been done here along those lines, and motor and controller info.

Thanks,

James
Hi James.

Welcome to EM. Are you interested in a little DIY? We've bandied about the idea of (among other things) transplanting the front differential/axle assembly from a 4WD truck into a RWD truck and powering it with an electric motor, but nobody has tried yet.

What kind of truck do you have?
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
Hi James.

Welcome to EM. Are you interested in a little DIY? We've bandied about the idea of (among other things) transplanting the front differential/axle assembly from a 4WD truck into a RWD truck and powering it with an electric motor, but nobody has tried yet.

What kind of truck do you have?
Actually it seems to me the 4x4 will make it quite easy compared to other options? Of coarse I'm 3-days new into this.

Yes, I'll be doing it here at JSC Engineering, Inc.
I considered driving the front, but I believe there is an advantage to drive back through the transfer case the other direction, using my 5-speed manual.

I am trying to outline what my requirements are, and subsequently what I will need as far as motor, controller & batteries.

This is for some stop & go that I sometimes hit.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droptail View Post
Actually it seems to me the 4x4 will make it quite easy compared to other options? Of coarse I'm 3-days new into this.

Yes, I'll be doing it here at JSC Engineering, Inc.
I considered driving the front, but I believe there is an advantage to drive back through the transfer case the other direction, using my 5-speed manual.

I am trying to outline what my requirements are, and subsequently what I will need as far as motor, controller & batteries.

This is for some stop & go that I sometimes hit.
Agreed, being able to run through the transmission gives you some mechanical advantage, but there is some extra driveline loss involved with running through a transfer case, not to mention extra weight and complexity. If you're driving the front diff directly, you won't have great acceleration, but generally you don't need that in stop-and-go anyway.

Something else you might consider is an e-wheel, like this guy did on his Insight:

Mikes Insight - MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist

Basically, it mounted underneath where the muffler was, and was geared to a top speed of 45-65 (depending on voltage), with the wheel retracting above that. You have a ton of open space under the bed and could do something similar, geared to top out at, say, 40-45 mph at 72V, and then have it retract above that speed. Again, not great acceleration, but probably sufficient for stop-and-go (and puttering around town at 25-35 mph) and a lot lighter than transplanting in a 4WD setup. By having it retract (he uses an air cylinder), you don't have the drag of the transfer case and hubs, and you wouldn't need a transmission, at least on flat ground. The Etek motor also has regen, so you could recover some of that energy while stopping and going.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
Agreed, being able to run through the transmission gives you some mechanical advantage, but there is some extra driveline loss involved with running through a transfer case, not to mention extra weight and complexity. If you're driving the front diff directly, you won't have great acceleration, but generally you don't need that in stop-and-go anyway.

Something else you might consider is an e-wheel, like this guy did on his Insight:

Mikes Insight - MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist

Basically, it mounted underneath where the muffler was, and was geared to a top speed of 45-65 (depending on voltage), with the wheel retracting above that. You have a ton of open space under the bed and could do something similar, geared to top out at, say, 40-45 mph at 72V, and then have it retract above that speed. Again, not great acceleration, but probably sufficient for stop-and-go (and puttering around town at 25-35 mph) and a lot lighter than transplanting in a 4WD setup. By having it retract (he uses an air cylinder), you don't have the drag of the transfer case and hubs, and you wouldn't need a transmission, at least on flat ground. The Etek motor also has regen, so you could recover some of that energy while stopping and going.
Thanks for the info Clev. I actually have considered the retractable motor solution, and still am. Also a chain drive to the drive shaft, and some other stuff. I am new to all this and still need to understand how the motors function with respect to free spinning, rpm capacities, drive through capability, etc.

Originally interested in regen, but seems 10% recoup doesn't justify cost and complexity.

Is there a source to calculate acceleration given weight and power? This will be my primary design criteria. I need to be able to have reasonable accell in S&G traffic, prob something like 0 - 35mph in maybe 15 secs, for 15 - 20 miles. I need to time it. Everything else will follow.

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Old 08-27-2009, 03:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droptail View Post
Thanks for the info Clev. I actually have considered the retractable motor solution, and still am. Also a chain drive to the drive shaft, and some other stuff. I am new to all this and still need to understand how the motors function with respect to free spinning, rpm capacities, drive through capability, etc.

Originally interested in regen, but seems 10% recoup doesn't justify cost and complexity.

Is there a source to calculate acceleration given weight and power? This will be my primary design criteria. I need to be able to have reasonable accell in S&G traffic, prob something like 0 - 35mph in maybe 15 secs, for 15 - 20 miles. I need to time it. Everything else will follow.
If you were building a straight EV, I would say that 0-35 in 15 seconds and 15-20 miles is pretty straightforward. You may want to also post to the EVDL (The Electric Vehicle Discussion List). They are really the source for building EVs.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Clev,


Driving the front diff would be an option if the motor were allowed to always free spin (always be connected to the diff), whether being powered or not. That is what I was referring to above.

Is this feasible with say an ADC 9", which seems like what I may need?

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Old 08-27-2009, 04:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droptail View Post
Clev,


Driving the front diff would be an option if the motor were allowed to always free spin (always be connected to the diff), whether being powered or not. That is what I was referring to above.

Is this feasible with say an ADC 9", which seems like what I may need?

Thanks
The only issue is that you'll need to gear the differential so you can never overspeed the motor. If you ever find yourself approaching 90 on a long downhill, you'll need to gear the differential for that, as the ADC doesn't take kindly to overspeeding. Consequently, the taller the gear, the less acceleration you'll have. (Again, maybe not an issue with the 9".)

If there's some kind of overrunning clutch you could put between the ADC and the diff, you could use a much lower gear ratio for better acceleration and efficiency, and still not overspeed the ADC when the truck exceeds its top speed. I don't know if there's an option that would work for that. (Or, like you said, use the transfer case just to the front wheels and put it in neutral.)

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