Newbie! Lab Rat!

[DeliveryGuy89]

Hey there!

I'm brand new to the eco-modding scene, but I love the concept, and for good reason - I'm a Delivery Driver! No way, right? S/N didn't give it away?

Anywho, I'm here for tips and tricks, and to see if some of my ideas are feasible, fantastic or FUBAR.

I drive a 96 Subaru, which for some of you, might be a bit counter-intuitive, but I live in a heavy snow area - I've had to deliver food in 21 inches of snowfall - while it was still coming down. So for me, that AWD is a necessity.

However, I am a bit tired of spending nearly $400 a month in gasoline.

My current plans are to install the Gasoline version of the Powershot 2000 Dual Propane Injection System from Diesel Performance Products - does anyone have any experience with this? I've seen tons of testimonials from Diesel drivers, but crickets on the Gasoline version. It promises a 30% fuel usage reduction, which I'm all for.

I'm then gonna strip as much extra weight from the inside of my car as I can without turning it into a crashderby racer - I have a GF and children, so I can't bare bones it, nor can I do so simply because of the -30/40 degree weather we get here on occasion.

Roof Rack is gonna be taken off, and I'm trying to figure out this "underbelly" plate concept.

Hypermiling is nearly out of the question because of the area where I live is all rolling hills, and most of the driving I do is in city. I do what I can - it's a manual, I do neutral on hills, turning my engine off one major hills, there's quite a few stoplights downtown that (during the day) I turn my engine off completely for their duration, cruise control every chance I get, shifting at about 2100 RPM, keeping my car at 1500 RPM as often as possible, 63 mph on the interstate, I keep my windows up, I keep my heater low, I turn off my car at every restaurant I pick up from and at every customer's house.

With careful habits, I've got my car up to about 23.5-24.4 MPG in city, and about 29.7 on the highway, with specs that are supposed to be about 22 city and 29 Highway. When I first got her, she was at 19 mpg! I replaced the spark plugs and a few other things, got it up to standard, and then went to work on my habits. Now that I've got those down, I want to start working on mods.

A few ideas I've had: I wanna see if I can replace all but my front and rear windows with Plexiglass to reduce weight.

I wanna see if I can install a deep-cycle battery in conjunction with my normal battery so I can just kill my engine at every single stop light and at least leave my heat on while I'm waiting on orders without worrying about murdering my battery.

Has anyone ever tried installing an Ozone Generator in their air intake? Seems to me the free oxygen would improve mileage - but maybe I have it backwards and it would just improve power.

And I'm curious how a slow leak Nitrous injector would couple with the propane injection system I'm getting, if I put an EFIE in as well.

I am open to be a guinea pig for ideas. I drive around 120-180 miles per day, I fill up my tank completely every other day. If you have an idea you've wanted to try and want quick results, you tell me how to do it and if it's in my budget, I'll go ahead and be your lab rat ( Would be nice if you buy me a new car if your idea makes mine explode, though :P ).

Hope to hear from you all soon!

Edit: Rather than just googling the specs, like I have been - I went ahead and went to the Fuel Economy Gov website that you've got here and it turns out that my car is rated at 19 MPG city, 22 Combined and 26 Highway, which puts me way higher than EPA! I've started my fuel log so it'll be much more accurate soon

[Stubby79]

Any expensive gadget is going to take forever to pay itself off; do the math first before investing in a propane setup.

Those things aren't very aerodynamic. Look in to what you can do to fix that.

I'd suggest starting with a grill block, warm air intake and looking into seeing if anyone does an economy tune for it. If not then consider tricking it with sensor mods.

Of course you can start by pumping your tires to their limit as per what's stamped on the sidewall. And make sure your alignment is good; both will reduce rolling resistance.

I'd think hills could be good for MPG...you get to run WOT up the hill, or close, where you engine is most efficient, and then you get to coast down the other side. Pulse and glide at it's fullest...?

[RedDevil]

Welcome!

Judging by your own MPG assessment, you're doing quite well already, which shows you're willing to learn as otherwise you probably wouldn't get there doing deliveries in a hilly area and all

I can recommend maintaining a fuel log. It is a great motivator for saving fuel.
Air up the tires, that gives immediate improvement for free (not nitrogen: air is 80% nitrogen anyway).

Also an OBDII monitoring tool that shows instant MPG, like a ScanGauge, UltraGauge or ELM327 (clone) Bluetooth dongle with Torque on your smartphone will be invaluable; you can set those up to show other variables like engine temp, air intake temp, timing advance, engine load %, open/closed loop burning (the latter is more efficient), anything the ECU can throw at you.
And reset engine codes if needed, which saved me a few trips to the dealer...

Then of course reading the 100+ hypermiling tips and 65+ efficiency mod links on top of the page. Not all tips are practical, but every single one is food for thought.

The don'ts: It is a 22 year old car. Saving weight is fine, but not if it takes more than a little money or time. You are not likely getting another 100,000 miles out of it.

Propane injection works, but it's just replacing one fuel with another. There's a substantial risk and initial cost, and the gains are small at best. Again, I wouldn't do it in an old car - but then I would not in any car.

Ozone, HHO, Marvel Mystery oil, Fuel Shark, etc. are snake oil. All of them have been debunked well enough, never have these been proven to work in ordinary vehicles. Yours may be the exception, but you have better chances winning the lottery. Better put your effort in something that will work.

Then many of us are dreamers, investigators and experimentators, so whatever you do we'll appreciate the effort

But first things first: air up the tires, block part of the grill, start a fuel log, buy an UltraGauge, smooth out the hub caps, construct a boat tail, scratch that last one for now

[JRMichler]

Heed what RedDevil said, it's good advice.

You should not need the additional deep cycle battery if you put on a trickle charger every night. If the stock battery fails, replace with an Odyssey AGM battery.

When it is time to replace tires, look for low rolling resistance tires. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires on my truck are stamped "Ultra Low Rolling Resistance" on the sidewalls.

Install a kill switch and use it freely. The goal is to eliminate engine idling by shutting it off.

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by Stubby79

If not then consider tricking it with sensor mods.

Of course you can start by pumping your tires to their limit as per what's stamped on the sidewall. And make sure your alignment is good; both will reduce rolling resistance.

I'd think hills could be good for MPG...you get to run WOT up the hill, or close, where you engine is most efficient, and then you get to coast down the other side. Pulse and glide at it's fullest...?

Sensor mods? What kinds of mods would those be? There's only one guy here that does Dynos and he's backed up for months. As for tires and alignment, already on top of that.

The hills are weird - they're windy and uneven. They're more like plateaus than hills. You'll have a 900 foot incline at 55 mph speed limit with an incline that makes it hard to reach 55 in a reasonable time span in 3rd gear, and then at the top, got a mile of residencies that have their own little hills here and there, and then on the other side, it'll kinda be stepped back down - little hill, flat. Little hill, flat.

And since there's a literal mountain in the middle of our town, it's not always economical to go back down the steep way - I have 31 different restaurants I have to pick up from that all are on all sides of the damned thing. I might pick up on the north side going to the south side, which is accessible from middle and west, but then have to go to another pick up on the west side, which taking the steep hill back into town would mean I'd have to go to downtown, through downtown, out west, curve around the mountain and pick up - I'd actually waste more gas than I'd save. It's a pain, to be perfectly honest.

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by JRMichler

Heed what RedDevil said, it's good advice.

You should not need the additional deep cycle battery if you put on a trickle charger every night. If the stock battery fails, replace with an Odyssey AGM battery.

When it is time to replace tires, look for low rolling resistance tires. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires on my truck are stamped "Ultra Low Rolling Resistance" on the sidewalls.

Install a kill switch and use it freely. The goal is to eliminate engine idling by shutting it off.

The battery is also because to save the 4 miles to my house and back to town that I'd drive when I'm on downtime between orders, I just sit in parking lots with my car off, sometimes for 2 - 3 hours at a time on like Monday's and Tuesday's. I have a power inversion system set up with my laptop and my xbox, running wireless off my phone's hotspot.

The tires honestly aren't worth the money I'd spend - we have maybe 3-4 months here where there's not a threat of ice. Here in SoDak we have a saying "Nice day! Give it five minutes." The weather can change at a drop of a hat.

The kill switch, I'm a little nervous to try because of our winding hills. I turn my car to ACC all the time, and those brakes go ridiculously hard. Loss of power steering isn't all that bad, just need an adjustment period, but losing the brakes is

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by DeliveryGuy89

The kill switch, I'm a little nervous to try because of our winding hills. I turn my car to ACC all the time, and those brakes go ridiculously hard. Loss of power steering isn't all that bad, just need an adjustment period, but losing the brakes is

California98Civic set up some sort of extra vacuum to keep more braking potential available during EOC (engine off coasting) with his kill switch. Might be worth a read.

If you keep it in lower gear above, say, 2000 RPMs with your foot off the pedal, your car goes into DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cutoff Operation) where it uses absolutely no fuel, and uses the rotation of the engine to keep the vehicle from speeding up as much. Helps when going down steep hills.

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Welcome!

Judging by your own MPG assessment, you're doing quite well already, which shows you're willing to learn as otherwise you probably wouldn't get there doing deliveries in a hilly area and all

Thanks!

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Also an OBDII monitoring tool that shows instant MPG, like a ScanGauge, UltraGauge or ELM327 (clone) Bluetooth dongle with Torque on your smartphone will be invaluable; you can set those up to show other variables like engine temp, air intake temp, timing advance, engine load %, open/closed loop burning (the latter is more efficient), anything the ECU can throw at you.
And reset engine codes if needed, which saved me a few trips to the dealer...

I use RealDash!

Originally Posted by RedDevil

The don'ts: It is a 22 year old car. Saving weight is fine, but not if it takes more than a little money or time. You are not likely getting another 100,000 miles out of it.

I disagree. With regular Maintenance, I had a 95 Subaru that lasted 410K miles. This one currently has 236K, and I've just redone the timing belt. I've also begun installing all LED to lessen draw on the alternator and other systems.

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Propane injection works, but it's just replacing one fuel with another. There's a substantial risk and initial cost, and the gains are small at best. Again, I wouldn't do it in an old car - but then I would not in any car.

This is an interesting system! It's not substitution, it's addition - the system is a simple install that injects propane into your air intake just short of your O2 Sensor. It works partially by tricking your O2 sensor into believing the Engine is running rich, and thus the ECU backs off the fuel pressure, and since propane burns hotter, it allows for a much more complete burn of the fuel, as well as adding the same amount of energy that would have been in the fuel that was held back. In addition, since Propane burns almost 100% clean, it reduces engine wear by eliminating carbon deposits and keeping your oil clearer for longer. I'm very excited to try it. I will let you all know how it goes, and post results. Most tests indicate a 30% jump in mileage.

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Ozone, HHO, Marvel Mystery oil, Fuel Shark, etc. are snake oil. All of them have been debunked well enough, never have these been proven to work in ordinary vehicles. Yours may be the exception, but you have better chances winning the lottery. Better put your effort in something that will work.

Damn. I thought I was onto something.

[oil pan 4]

Don't expect propane to give you a big boost in mpg.
Once you add up all the gasoline and propane you may see a 1 or 2% difference.
Right now for me propane is $2 per gallon. But propane only contains around 3/4 the energy of gasoline so you burn 25% more.
Ozone generators, hho generators are all scams.
Nitrous oxide is very expensive, plus if the nitrous leaks into the intake while the car is off and you go to start it you can blow the intake manifold off the engine as soon as you go to start it.
Running the heat while the car is off will only really work for as long as the little bit of coolant in the heater core stays warm. So you will maybe have heat for a minute or two.

Try a low rolling resistance winter tire.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Someone I know rebuilt his Ford Bronco to run on propane, and gets significantly lower fuel economy with propane, but due to how inexpensive propane is, he is saving a decent amount of money. However, like with electric, you'd need a decent source of propane so you aren't stranded. Propane isn't as readily available as gas and diesel are. Plus, the changeover is complicated.