Newbie! Lab Rat!

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

2nd car for days you don't need AWD, I'd pick a Mirage, idle consumption is probably under 1/3 gallon per hour, $.66 an hour to stay warm.

Forget propane, in 20 lbs tanks it's around $4 a gallon, $5.80 gasoline equivalent. (88,000 btu per gallon vs 128,000 btu, from memory could be off some).

When adding a extra fuel to the air stream the car's LTFT(Long Term Fuel Trim) will go negative using less gasoline, you'd really want that amount of fuel to be constant ratio with the air flow so that the LTFT doesn't jump all over the place. The most you can do without getting a CEL is about 20% of fuel demand. Open Loop or Closed loop the LTFT is still used to adjust the mixture.

I'm gonna say this as nicely as I can... WHERE TF DO YOU LIVE THAT PROPANE IS $4 A GALLON?!

It is 2.16-2.36 depending on the time of year here at my local Tractor Supply. I use it for my grill, and a full tank costs me like 15 bucks after tax.

Gasoline on the other hand, is at 2.66, but it's only been there for maybe 5 days, it was 2.87 for a long time, and 2.95 all summer.

As for everyone saying to add a second car, I'd really rather drop the 800 on a potentially useless propane system. I just added my gf to my insurance and it went from 157 dollars a month to 396 a month - drivers that use their car for work pay MUCH higher premiums. Adding yet another car, and a new one at that, would have me paying probably 700 a month for insurance, plus a 2-300 dollar a month car loan payment?!

The point here is to save money lolol.

[roosterk0031]

A 20 lb tank is 4.7 gallons, $15/4.7 = $3.19. I paid $1.32 earlier this month for bulk delivery. They charge almost $18 to fill 20 lb tanks. $18/4.7 = is $3.82. Not many years ago with I had to pay over $3 a gallon delivered, usually 275 gallons at a time.

With the reduction in energy content per gallon on top of that a gallon of propane in 20 lbs tanks is equivalent to $5+ gasoline. If you can get bulk delivery price you can save.

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Yeah in SD a warm air intake could be a huge help this time of year.

I keep seeing that pop up here and I've never even heard of them, but I'll definitely look into it.

My other thought that I forgot to mention earlier, since cold starts are a huge pain here - I do have a block heater. And a power inverter. Aaaand a smart plug that I can control with my phone, including a timer.

If I run a regular battery in conjunction with the deep cycle battery that has a 210 minute discharge - regular creates crank, runs vehicle while on, deep cycle runs it while off, couldn't I potentially plug the block heater into the inverter with a timed plug that turns on an hour before I go to work, and essentially just use the cars power to heat itself?

Thereby eliminating the power wastage/pollution that block heaters create by being plugged into a wall?

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

A 20 lb tank is 4.7 gallons, $15/4.7 = $3.19. I paid $1.32 earlier this month for bulk delivery. They charge almost $18 to fill my 20 lb tanks. $18/4.7 = is $3.82. Not many years ago with I had to pay over $3 a gallon delivered, usually 275 gallons at a time.

With the reduction in energy content per gallon is going to be only way to save IMO is if you can get bulk delivery.

Well here it's 2.36. 2.36x4.7 is 11.09. And SD has really really low taxes. I wasn't being exact when I said "like $15" haha. It was 12 or $13 total. 5 gallons in gas on the other hand, up until last week, was costing me 14.35.

Now that may not seem like much of a difference, but given that I get about 24 mpg, and drive about 4500 miles a month, including work and personal drive time, it costs me about 12 cents a mile. Dropping that down even by a single cent will save me 45 dollars per month. The product promises a 30% reduction, that's really hard to just ignore - that would save me
162 dollars a month, which means that even factoring in propane costs, the product should pay for itself in around 7-8 months.

This company has RAVE reviews for it's diesel product, and not just on their site - I dug into various other car forums and found quite a few of their customers who have seen 8-10 mpg gains in Diesel's from the 80's - and they have been in production for 17 years. The gas product is relatively new, but I'm just gonna have to trust they know what they're doing.

[DeliveryGuy89]

Originally Posted by Vman455

(Cary Grant voice): "Rapid City, South Dakota!"

Does that one gas station on the east side of town still have all those stuffed and mounted big game animals?

As others have said, HHO and whatnot are all snake oil--you might as well try Rocket Tabs for all the good it will do you. I would skip the propane; I don't see that paying for itself. And I wouldn't bother with Plexiglass windows--they may be lighter, but there are easier ways to lose as much weight for no cost and not have to deal with issues like weathering, scratching, and sealing. (See the Green Grand Prix modding thread for an example list).

If you're spending considerable time idling waiting for orders, and stopping with the engine off, I would look into engine insulation to retain heat in addition to more battery capacity. Specifically, (and I'm going to try this on my car) an engine "jacket" like BMW announced they would develop a few years ago and apparently never did. But, this guy made one for his Insight :

Now that's an interesting concept... Yeah, I generally spend 10-20 minutes in front of each restaurant with the car off and it can get bitterly cold in the cabin real quick. I've got an electric coat and heated seats, but those only go so far when it's 30 mph winds and -20 outside.

And I think you're talking about Wall, SD? A town that's pretty much an oversized gas station and gift shop? Yeah, it's still there lol. I hate it. So many signs for it and it's just weird.

[roosterk0031]

I'll have to check Tractor Supply for refills, 2 empties at home, one in the grill last a lot longer this time of year. I filled with my car Friday at $1.96 for E15.

I wonder how big of tank you'd have to have to get bulk prices? My dad used to hang 100 lb tanks he delivered that were almost empty upside down to drain into his 20's and 1's.

One of my daughters worked at Mt Rushmore Visitor Center summer last summer. Her car was acting up so had to drive out to visit and swap cars.

Speaking of Wall, had a Northern Iowa Panthers hat on at gas station, guy asked were I was from, I usually just say SE Iowa since town of under 300, he grew up about 4 miles from me, 1st cousin lived across the street from me.

[Daox]

Originally Posted by DeliveryGuy89

I typed out a big response to RedDevil earlier, but it got eaten by the newbie filter - I tried to share a link, so waiting on a mod response

Post approved!

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by DeliveryGuy89

I typed out a big response to RedDevil earlier, but it got eaten by the newbie filter - I tried to share a link, so waiting on a mod response

I'll check to see if there's a post in the moderation queue when I get back to my usual IP address (blocked myself from here ).


When you make one more post, you'll be past the limit for including URL's in posts. We're pretty sure you're not a spammer now!

[MetroMPG]

Belated welcome to the forum, DeliveryGuy89!

I did an eco-driving session with an AWD Subie owner (about the same vintage of yours, but automatic), and was surprised how thirsty it was (not knowing the EPA numbers ahead of time).

Sounds like you're a big fan of the brand, but I'd be planning ahead: are there any better MPG options in your price range with AWD? You cut your fuel consumption in half during the non-snow months with an additional vehicle - is that an option?

Until then, follow the good advice given so far. I suspect you won't find a huge improvement in your numbers considering how much effort you're already putting in. PS: kudos for doing delivery with a manual. That helps a TON if you're driving it well.

PPS: Nokian makes a really LRR winter tire, from what I've read. Lemme see if I can find it...


Edit - here's one thread: Riding on Nokian LRR winter tires: R2

[RedDevil]

You wrote you use RealDash...
It uses the ELM327 protocol, but also they say you can use USB to communicate with the ECU.
That's new to me. Is that true, is there an OBDII to USB converter or such?