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Old 11-18-2014, 07:49 PM   #101 (permalink)
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For that kind of deal, I would trade in the low-mile 04 Tahoe!

Where, pray tell, did you get that kind of a deal? I'd check into that for a Volt!!! Perfect car for a "Hyper-Dimensional Electrician"

I'm also working on a cordless on-board charger for EVs
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I got their 2nd to last 2013 but it was fully loaded, so you will end up around $25k out the door including tax, title, delivery.

There are others offering the same deals on new 2012/2013's with the tax break, just pays to look around and nag dealers. (and the price on their website said $45k ish but I didn't pay it just made an offer.

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Old 11-18-2014, 08:05 PM   #102 (permalink)
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And I think the next model year of the B Class Electric has the "extra distance" option standard. It also includes thermal insulation in the car, and the "extended range" button that lets you use more of the battery pack and get the range up to ~105 miles.

One hot (future) aftermarket option, and OEM for future models will be a Capacitor Bank. Our local engineering school built an EV for a collegiate competition that had a cap bank. The beauty of a properly sized cap bank is that it can capture nearly all of regenerative braking energy that is generated, as opposed to whatever the charge efficiency of the battery bank is. Another "bonus" is that the (electrical) sizing of the cap bank is only 20% of the battery! Smart controllers between battery and cap are needed... but the real upside, according to this engineering exercise was this:

A properly sized cap bank can double range in a stop and go EV driving situation.

Such cap banks already exist, with varying voltages and capacitance. Not CHEAP, however. A current limiting controller between the battery and caps would keep the caps from "putting a hurt" on the battery bank if thecaps were depleted after heavy acceleration A capacitor's ability to deliver current is matched only by it's ability to suck it up!
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:34 PM   #103 (permalink)
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$0.138/ kWh for my electric bill this month.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:07 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by undeRGRound View Post
...
Such cap banks already exist, with varying voltages and capacitance. Not CHEAP, however. A current limiting controller between the battery and caps would keep the caps from "putting a hurt" on the battery bank if thecaps were depleted after heavy acceleration A capacitor's ability to deliver current is matched only by it's ability to suck it up!
A current limiting controller... a resistor?

Would this cap bank be just like the controllers existing caps only with a larger capacity?

This could help with acceleration, the caps could provide more amps than the batteries which would be good. But to do it they would have enough charge in them, but what if it was regen and the caps were nearly full. The regen would have to go to the batteries.
So the controller would probably have to keep the cap bank at half charge so that it could give the controller amps or receive regen amps.
That's a lot of capacitor capacity.
Or maybe it could be a regen only setup where the regen went to the cap bank and the cap bank slowly (relatively) put this charge into the batteries so the cap bank would then be empty. Ready to receive the next bit of regen.

How much regen is lost due to the batteries not being able to take the charge quickly enough?
I thought the low regen return when slowing down compared to the charge used to get up to speed was due to an inefficiency in the induction motor. The motor being designed as a motor not a generator and so there were compromises. But then i have never researched it, it was just an assumption.
So a Li-ion battery pack would have a different regen capability compared to a lead acid battery pack on the same motor?
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:20 AM   #105 (permalink)
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The Level 3 CHAdeMO EVSE units are 480V DC up to 125A. Between 44 and 62.5kW.

Nissan has engineered the battery and charger to safely handle the capacity it has. Midway through the 2014 model year, they started using a more robust cell (so-called "lizard battery"), and they no longer recommend charging it to 80% regularly.

Our electric rate actually dropped a bit: from 19.2/kWh to 18.58/kWh. Our consumption increased from 478kWh to 824kWh; most /all of that due to charging the Leaf. So, we paid about $64 to drive the Leaf about 1400 miles (the billing date was the 15th, so I have to estimate this). That is about 4.57 / mile.

The losses during regen are almost entirely due to motor/charger/battery losses. I am sure the batteries can take it as fast as it is generated. Lead acid batteries benefit from a capacitor buffer, but lithium are fine. I think we will have hit peak regen for a grand total of about 1 second. Long gentle regen is what happens most of the time.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:51 PM   #106 (permalink)
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The Level 3 CHAdeMO EVSE units are 480V DC up to 125A. Between 44 and 62.5kW.
There it is! 480v
Assuming this is mainly a rectifier and smoothing circuitry, perhaps a 480V AC input is required. Just a guess, as I cannot find the AC input specs anywhere on the web. But the DC output specs I did find would pretty much totally use up a 240VAC/200A residential service. I have installed huge 400A residential services, which is what you would need most likely, and even bigger on commercial and industrial setups. Or shut EVERYTHING OFF to charge the Leaf
A common "size up" is the 225A 240V which would allow this, but I'm guessing you would need a big transformer to get the voltage up for the CHAdeMO. I cannot find input specs anywhere, which should be everywhere!

Plus the $16,000 U$D (or more) cost is not conducive to a residential setting
CHAdeMO website listed 50KW max DC output, an 80% charge efficiency, assuming your 62.5KW figure above is correct. Too bad the LiIon battery tech is what TPTB have allowed for EV markets, the NiMH (Chevron owned) tech is compatible with the DC Pulse Charging that the cutting edge crowd is working with


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The losses during regen are almost entirely due to motor/charger/battery losses. I am sure the batteries can take it as fast as it is generated. Lead acid batteries benefit from a capacitor buffer, but lithium are fine. I think we will have hit peak regen for a grand total of about 1 second. Long gentle regen is what happens most of the time.
In the context of the Nissan Leaf, you may be spot on.
Using a true motor/generator, or MG Set, could boost regen outputs well above the battery's capability to absorb the wattage. THEN a Cap Bank would really pay off. Properly engineered electrical systems (read: EXPENSIVE!) can be well over 95% efficient. Think of an EV that makes a Tesla look like an econo-EV
Graphene Caps (still a few years off) would be the schiznit for that, along with NiMH batteries. William Chu (former DOE head) did a write up on existing battery tech and basically it said we need a 15x greater battery potential to make EVs as practical and cost effective as gasoline automobiles, but that was a 5x greater storage/weight ratio and a 3x greater cost ratio.

Don't take all of this as gospel, things change and I'm going from memory, over the last several years I researched this. IMO the best available EV setup (for range at least) would be the Chevy Volt due to the on board gas genny. A Nissan Leaf with an additional on board system would be even better! I'm tying a lot of future and potential improvements in to current cars, and there is a LOT of R&D and debugging to do, but you "early adopters" will be leading the way!
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:05 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Then there is the small matter of the cost of the Level 3 EVSE - they are apparently $10,000-12,000. I think the Leaf's Level 3 is ~44kW.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:47 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Our electric rate actually dropped a bit: from 19.2/kWh to 18.58/kWh.
Boy, they sure do have some high rates for you guys!

Do you still call your poly-ticks (politicians) MASS-Holes?
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:05 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Then there is the small matter of the cost of the Level 3 EVSE - they are apparently $10,000-12,000. I think the Leaf's Level 3 is ~44kW.
That one could prolly run off a regular residential service, and using it at night could result in an off-peak kW rate? If the input voltage requirements are in line with your service. Adding a transformer would be expensive
Even for a DIY install. But I bet MA has a strict licensing/bonding requirement
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:16 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I think that most residential service is 2 phase, and that Level 3 EVSE require 3 phase.

We do have high rates, and they are going up this winter. In addition, I have opted to pay an additional 2.4 / kWh to have it "come" from renewable sources: mostly small hydro and some wind and solar and some biogas methane called "Cow Power".

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