Orbis Wheel

[freebeard]

https://orbisdriven.com/

ORBIS wheels bring multiple benefits to 4-wheeled vehicles. The Ring-Driven™ wheel weighs no more than a conventional wheel, yet incorporates the entire drivetrain and braking system for that wheel.

I always thought the Edison 2 in wheel suspension deserved a better fate. Comes now Orbis, with a wheel that is hubless and not at the same time.

[samwichse]

Why is this in the unicorn corral? Seems like a neat invention and a logical extension of the proven tech Edison2 came up with.

[redpoint5]

It makes claims that can't possibly be true, such as "weighs no more than a conventional wheel". I'm not thrilled that there's a gear around the inside perimeter of the wheel either. Seems like debris would constantly be crunched in there.

The Edison in-wheel suspension was not a good idea. It adds to unsprung weight needlessly and compromises the length of travel. Conventional suspension is pretty good. It didn't really solve any problems.

That's the whole thing, a new product must solve a problem better than any other existing products.

[freebeard]

Why is this in the unicorn corral?

I didn't think much about the choice. Get the mods to move it if you like. Okay by me.

I'd be more impressed if they had the wheel on both ends of the car. It appears the Civic is frontwheel drive with these tagged on the back, but the exploded diagram shows an electric motor. But no brake? [shrug]

Then there's the $10K price tag.

[samwichse]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The Edison in-wheel suspension was not a good idea. It adds to unsprung weight needlessly and compromises the length of travel. Conventional suspension is pretty good. It didn't really solve any problems.

I'm not sure where this extra unsprung weight you're talking about comes into it?

I see a coilover, a couple arms, a brake caliper/rotor, and a hub, all cleverly packaged, but the same stuff as in any current car.

But you certainly have a point about somewhat limited travel.



That's one of the drive wheels. That reduction box/portal axle thing does look to add some unsprung mass. But IIRC the reason for it was to tuck the axle aerodynamically up with the main suspension support spar above. Throw the drive axle straight into the back of the hub there, and I'm still not seeing the reduction in unsprung weight with something like a Honda civic:



Orbis... yeah, they're adding unsprung weight, but they seem to weigh about half (35lbs) of what other hub motors weigh. Seems like a win and pretty non-unicorn to me.

[redpoint5]

Maybe it doesn't add much weight, but the point that it reduces travel remains. If this were a better way to do suspension, they'd already be using it.


...and I was misremembering their implementation of in wheel suspension thinking it was something more along these lines:

[California98Civic]

They showed up at SEMA with a modified new Type R Civic. Weighed parts on camera, discussed Motor Trend test results:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ4lTPVR3qc

Here is the motor Trend article:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hond...-r-awd-review/

"These two permanent-magnet AC electric motors, borrowed directly from a Zero S ZF13.0 electric motorcycle, add about 50 hp and 70 lb-ft of torque to each rear wheel. They spin the wheel rims via a fixed 6.2:1 gear ratio. They're powered by Zero Motorcycle batteries with a total pack capacity of 13.3 kW-hrs. Removing the back seat and cargo area floor and mounting these batteries and the controller that makes it all work adds about 180 pounds to the curb weight of the original Civic Type R."

[samwichse]

Ah, so the no weight gain claim is based on the ridiculously light weight caliper and rotor they use offsetting the extra motor with. Makes more sense.

Also, the hubcap is apparently solid or optionally lexan backed and seals the front of the wheel, but that still doesn't explain how grime won't get in there from the back. Those unlubricated gears seem problematic... at least they're straight-cut, but I would assume they're going to be wear parts that require fairly frequent replacement. Fine for a track car, but maybe not so much a daily.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by samwichse

... the hubcap is apparently solid or optionally lexan backed and seals the front of the wheel, but that still doesn't explain how grime won't get in there from the back. Those unlubricated gears seem problematic... at least they're straight-cut, but I would assume they're going to be wear parts that require fairly frequent replacement. Fine for a track car, but maybe not so much a daily.

I wondered about something similar. It seems to me there's a risk the road debris such as rocks and other crap that might be on the road getting in there and wreaking havoc with that ring gear. I would think a protective plastic cover for the back would be important. It would prevent airflow passing through the wheel, reducing brake cooling, but also reducing road debris risks. That little caliper and large brake disc would probably be fine with a small heat increase. It's the rear brakes anyway.

[California98Civic]

Another video about the Orbis Wheel, complete with demonstrations. This one is by the YouTuber HondaProJason. It includes discussion of braking and other capacities that I haven't seen in the other discussions by Motor Trend and at SEMA. There is some repetition of marketing claims as well, however.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocYd0I1cJH4