The Pacific Ocean is being trashed....

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Nader is about as objective on nuclear power as the Westboro Baptist Church is on gay marriage.

Damn you

*(pads off to find kitchen towel to clean monitor...)

[Giovanni LiCalsi]

Germany has shelved most of the plans to build the coal fired plants.
You are posting old reports.
So good of you to cherry pick what you want to make us believe.
You must be propping up insane corporate propaganda that is all over the media.
Some people like to live where **** is not raining down their throats.

[Giovanni LiCalsi]

No one died in the Chernnbyl disaster, too!

Chernobyl nuclear accident: figures for deaths and cancers still in dispute
• Suspected infant mortality rise difficult to prove
• Predicted deaths range from 4,000 to half a million

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Giovanni LiCalsi

Germany has shelved most of the plans to build the coal fired plants.
You are posting old reports.
So good of you to cherry pick what you want to make us believe.
You must be propping up insane corporate propaganda that is all over the media.
Some people like to live where **** is not raining down their throats.

Since when is August 2013 "old reports?" You do realize that is less than 5 months ago, right? Do you know how long 5 months is?

[Arragonis]

A lot get shelved before production or abandoned later. This lists 11 operating or being built.

Germany and coal - SourceWatch

Some people like to live where **** is not raining down their throats.

If that is a major issue where you are can I suggest a stout umbrella, or maybe going inside until the cattle have passed ? EDIT - or don't look up with your mouth open

Stanley Steam car is cool BTW. I like Peter Pellendine's one too.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Giovanni LiCalsi

No one died in the Chernnbyl disaster, too!

Questionable - several of the team on duty that night died within a week.

edit : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_...nobyl_disaster

I posted an Oxford university study on it above.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I agree being efficient in energy is a good thing but if its a major issue be a pioneer and turn the PC off.

Just like any discussion on religion or politics or reproduction, it is easy to cross over from rational to hysterical. Either you and Vago have done that, or you both have missed the thread about energy usage where I posted my 122 kwH/mo average electric consumption, when the U.S. average is 902 kwH/mo- and I don't even have the benefit of glomming on to someone else's heat as apartment dwellers do and yes, I have refrigeration and a PC. Perhaps that is pioneering; if so, it is very sad that things so simple as common sense and choosing to not be a slob are considered extraordinary.

You see, there is a difference between simply using whatever form of energy efficiently- in this case, electricity, but similarly I presume you are here because you have or had an interest in using fossil fuel efficiently- and wasting it. In other words, one can be a selfish slob or one can be a wise, efficient user of energy even though one is still using that form of energy. Can you detect the difference between tearing all over creation in Hummers -or- exclusively riding a bicycle -or- bicycling a lot and also using an eco car or even a truck when it proves a useful tool? I sure hope so.

I wouldn't expect the average household to be willing or even able to cut back consumption to my 122 kw/mo level, but how much would they have to cut- 20%? 30?- in order to render this ignorant supply-side bickering about more energy production irrelevant? Unplug a few hundred million phantom electricity using devices that are essentially doing nothing productive, or put up more filthy nukes- or power plants of ANY sort? You know which one I prefer.

P.S. It's too bad that such well known names in this arena- like Gore and Nader- are also the biggest hypocrits and idiots. Fine- dismiss them completely. Don't let them destroy the facts and the message.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Giovanni LiCalsi

Read what Ralph Nader is saying:

Nuclear Nightmare
By Ralph Nader, Reader Supported News

Nuclear Nightmare

Replaced bulk copy/paste in that post with a link.

Please don't paste full length copyrighted material in the forum. Thanks!

[Arragonis]

@Frank, fair point well made but my point also stands. And we aren't discussing any of those 3, AFAIK. Maybe others are, not me.

If I seem hysterical then meh - these are words on a screen from someone you have never met (maybe never will) and we are seperated by a common language.

It wasn't my intention anyway.

On the point made :

Your reduced use of energy and petrol is superb and as you say using as little of it as possible and choosing the right "tool for the job" in transport terms is great - I don't have those options as my toolkit can only contain one instrument for various reasons (space, cost etc.) so I try and use it as best I can. I read here about how to do so and what works and what doesn't and post about it like others do so that maybe it can help elsewhere, or indeed just me in the future.

On your basis though you being on a PC posting here is an indulgence of some kind - you don't need to be here posting* - but that you are and that requires power which in some form or other comes from the grid, and ultimately a power station.

Your idea seems to be that as you save more than the average American (which is 3x as profligate as an average European and god knows how many x as profligate as the rest of the world) then you have "something in the bank" to support this activity.

Personally I think you are right in this.

But if it was that much of a priority to never need that generation capacity (nukes) then you wouldn't even use that indulgence, it would stay in the bank for the good of gaia and/or your bank balance - whichever priority you have.

I suppose in religion terms we are pondering puritan vs catholic - same faith, different amount of shiney things.

As an aside you have posted about how old your PC is (so no spend on it) and I suppose a discussion about whether a newer machine which is xtimes faster and uses /x as much energy is one to have elsewhere.

*(BTW I am not suggesting you don't post, just responding to the point at hand).

[Arragonis]

From here.

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Seconded - can we agree to disagree and get on sticking bits of Correx / coroplast to our cars and just ignore this even when some muppet dredges it up ?

Peace

Edit - unsubscribing, lets all do the same.