Paul's how NOT to convert a Metro

[vpoppv]

Well, when I got home today, there was a serious stench of a very angry electrical God (Zeus??). The controller, the most expensive part at $75, was stone cold (thank heaven), and I could see no melting wires. No smoke. I think it's the motor. I won't have a chance to look it over until spring break
Man, I guess 2 hp at 36v rating isn't supposed to lug 1,700 lbs around at 72 volts- go figure. Back to burning dead dinosaurs for a while.....

[byte312]

First let us look at electric cars that do work. The Tesla Roadster (200 miles and more), the Leaf (100 miles), and some concept cars built by Japan and British researchers. Almost 300 miles on a single charge is possible. But no, that is not what you will get when you try to convert your rust bucket. You will get 50 miles when the batteries are new. 15 miles when the batteries are old. You will spend as much money as a new car cost.
You might fall into the same rut that we all did at the start. The assumtion that the more batteries the better. The bigger motor will be better. Heck, let's fill it up with 18, 70lbs lead batteries at 6 volts each and drive accross America.
Well, it won't work. You can't add that much weight to a car and expect good performance or range. I don't have to tell you how to do it the right way because it has been done and the cars are available for purchase.
Or if you really feel the need to build it yourself, do it like they did it.
I like to build my own stuff but, I really don't want the car that goes 50 miles at a time at a price of $32,000. Yes, I have seen a car that fits this description and I even rode as a passenger in it.
I was not impressed. I have a seen a whole list of cars that serve as expamples of how NOT to do it.

[byte312]

Originally Posted by vpoppv

Thank you dcb! So far all I have heard is : "that could work", or "so many others have done it successfully", etc. I'm a Maverick though. I like to do what no one has done before. I'm the guy that likes to make OTHER people look good

Might I suggest that you fill a large 18 wheel trailer filled with lead batteries behind the car to power it. The more batteries the better the range, right?

[MetroMPG]

byte312: I detect a broken record!

Originally Posted by byte312

You will spend as much money as a new car cost.

I humbly suggest you haven't read this thread thoroughly.

Paul: what did you do to anger Zeus?? Did you forget a dead battery carcass offering?

[byte312]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

byte312: I detect a broken record!

What really impressed me was the electric car that goes 400 miles with a fuel cell powered by Sodium Borohydride. I think that was built my Mike Stritzki in Boston. He can refill the tank with fresh solution to go another 400 miles. The chassis is lightweight aluminum. Here again, it was built light weight and not a lot of heavy batteries.
A record needs to be broken. We all need to get unstuck and break past the 50 mile barrier. Has anyone come up with any exciteing new ideas? I am willing to try anything that sounds reasonable.
I spent a few years designing my own regenerative motor controller. I have been running Etek motors for 52.5 hours on one small 12v car battery and testing the energy returns from reverse EMF, brush noise, and excess forward current, as well as, the ability of the motor to generate power when coasting down toward a stop. I have learned that if the motor is 80% effecient, you will get less than that. The motor will give you 1% and then 2% and so on up to 80% under heavy loads until you reach the ideal speed tourque and load. At that point you still loose 20% unless you have regenerative systems in place. I have learned that there are forms of energy that I can not recover. These are mostly heat and vibration including audible sound. Also, some electromagnetic radiation (radio waves).
I have some really crazy ideas about batteries also. What do you all think of this... One battery filled with electrolyte that is supplied from a tank of freshly charged solution, circulated by a small pump. The weight is mostly in the lead plates. Perhaps something safer than sulphuric acid would be advisable. Water with strong vinegar and a touch of magnessium sulphate (to allow the creation of sulphur ions) is 6 pounds per gallon I believe? I don't know if this works but I will try it because it is outside the box. That is where the fun is. How about.....

[vpoppv]

Originally Posted by byte312

First let us look at electric cars that do work. The Tesla Roadster (200 miles and more), the Leaf (100 miles), and some concept cars built by Japan and British researchers. Almost 300 miles on a single charge is possible. But no, that is not what you will get when you try to convert your rust bucket. You will get 50 miles when the batteries are new. 15 miles when the batteries are old. You will spend as much money as a new car cost.
You might fall into the same rut that we all did at the start. The assumtion that the more batteries the better. The bigger motor will be better. Heck, let's fill it up with 18, 70lbs lead batteries at 6 volts each and drive accross America.
Well, it won't work. You can't add that much weight to a car and expect good performance or range. I don't have to tell you how to do it the right way because it has been done and the cars are available for purchase.
Or if you really feel the need to build it yourself, do it like they did it.
I like to build my own stuff but, I really don't want the car that goes 50 miles at a time at a price of $32,000. Yes, I have seen a car that fits this description and I even rode as a passenger in it.
I was not impressed. I have a seen a whole list of cars that serve as expamples of how NOT to do it.

I'm thinking MetroMPG is right, you haven't read the thread!
Tesla. Yep, good idea. Should my oldest daughter or youngest daughter ride on the hood?
Leaf. Great idea. They have my down payment. Still waiting..... What are they on, number 11?
And I must admit, I haven't shopped for a new car in a while. Are they really going for $500 now?
But as far as distance goes, you're right. My car probably couldn't go further than 15 miles I really need a car that can go 300 miles with some of those off the shelf, cheap borohydride batteries. Then I can charge once a year.

I am angry my car acted weird with that smell. I love that car. It meets my needs 100% for what I built it for. But maybe it's for the best, because the motor's big brother has been sitting on the floor of my computer room for way too long. If I can pull out a year and a half from mighty tiny, then I will probably have a decade's worth of reliability from big brother. Naysayers never end with the reasons why they shouldn't drive an electric car. I'd rather just DRIVE one than make excuses.
If your buddy Mike Stritzki did this with $500 and off the shelf parts, I'm all ears. If not, keep your vaporware and unobtanium to yourself. I want to get to work TODAY, with my kids, for cheap. Not when the technology arrives, not when an OEM decides to finally make one, not with technology that requires fancy charging methods, that I have to order from China, that I have to sell a kidney to afford.
You know, I will be honest here. It doesn't take a genius to build an electric car that goes far and/or fast. It just takes a lot of money.

And MetroMPG, it was just an ordinary drive home. Nothing fancy. Maybe I need to get some more batteries stolen to get karma shifted back in my favor.....

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by byte312

...How about.....

I seem to remember in the early days of cars that headlights used sodium and water. If you ran out of water you (carefully) improvised.

And then got "the staff" to clean up.

Shame about the Metro. I was watching Ben's DVD tonight, got my leccy MGB juices going. Now if only I had a spare 2 mins.

Ah well, time for bed.

[MPaulHolmes]

The Thundersky batteries would cost around $15000 to go 200 miles if your car takes around 250w*hr/mi of force to push it around, and if you could get the batteries for around $1.1 per amp*hr. A 200HP peak controller would be around $500, the charger $300, BMS around $400, motor $1500 new, or $500 on ebay. Mating the motor to the transmission might be $750. The rest of the costs are pretty minor. I don't know what that adds up to, but it's definitely cheaper than $32000.

[byte312]

Originally Posted by vpoppv

I am angry my car acted weird with that smell. I love that car. It meets my needs 100% for what I built it for. But maybe it's for the best, because the motor's big brother has been sitting on the floor of my computer room for way too long. If I can pull out a year and a half from mighty tiny, then I will probably have a decade's worth of reliability from big brother. Naysayers never end with the reasons why they shouldn't drive an electric car. I'd rather just DRIVE one than make excuses.
If your buddy Mike Stritzki did this with $500 and off the shelf parts, I'm all ears. If not, keep your vaporware and unobtanium to yourself.... ....You know, I will be honest here. It doesn't take a genius to build an electric car that goes far and/or fast. It just takes a lot of money.

And MetroMPG, it was just an ordinary drive home. Nothing fancy. Maybe I need to get some more batteries stolen to get karma shifted back in my favor.....

Ok, well I am happy that you are happy with what you built and its performance. We build these things for the utility they give us.
There are some people who would still rather ride a horse. I mean hey, just give it some hay and its ready to hit the road and to each his own.

But as far as our nation is concerned, I could find some extra pride if someone were developing some new and better technology that put America in first place again. We come in last time and time again and people are happy with that.
Stock lots of duct tape and old washing machine parts. We will need that to lead the world of tomorrow or maybe China can lead the world for us.

[Frank Lee]

You can lead us. Build it and we will come.