Paul's how NOT to convert a Metro

[byte312]

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

The Thundersky batteries would cost around $15000 to go 200 miles if your car takes around 250w*hr/mi of force to push it around, and if you could get the batteries for around $1.1 per amp*hr. A 200HP peak controller would be around $500, the charger $300, BMS around $400, motor $1500 new, or $500 on ebay. Mating the motor to the transmission might be $750. The rest of the costs are pretty minor. I don't know what that adds up to, but it's definitely cheaper than $32000.

The $32,000 was the result of too many experts working on the car. The cost to install the motor was about $11,000 and then they wanted more to cut out the floor of the trunk and weld in battery boxes. The suspension was being crushed so that cost more to fix. It just went on and on like this until the police had to be called to recover a few other cars that were being held hostage by the machine shop that was doing the work.
I felt badly for the poor guy that was paying that bill.

I personally need a car that can cover at least 85 miles in a day to get me to work and home. Nothing less could get me there and back. So, this is where I am coming from and this is what most people would need to be practical for them. If you live close to work, you don't really need to worry about the price of gas because you hardly burn any.
I worry because I drive so many mile each week that it is hurting my wallet.
Also, I am one who wants to see better things done that are good for everyone. If you stand next to an electric car people will swarm around it and start asking questions. The first question is: How far can it go? The next is how fast can it go? This is a grand opportunity that has been trashed. The crowd will start laughing when you answer these questions and walk away. I can't blame them because it really does look foolish when you explain it. I want to change that! I want to make a car that is better than what people are driveing now. I think it can be done just like the first cars, time is needed to develope them and make them affordable for the general public to own. I am afraid that damage has been done. The public at large see these cars as failures. One encourageing development is the almost sudden availibility of re-chargeing stations in our communities. They are popping up all over which makes it easy to avoid the embarisment of anwering the dreaded question, how do you charge it away from home?
We make excuses for not driving electric cars but we also make excuses for falling short of what the world expects from them. There was a time when the push to put a man on the moon was a race to which would put America on top. This is the new challenge.
Sadly, this has become a political issue. Ultra Conservatives blame "the loony liberals" for forceing these cars on the public. what other rights and freedoms will they take away when they force us to drive these cars????

[vpoppv]

Originally Posted by byte312

I personally need a car that can cover at least 85 miles in a day to get me to work and home. Nothing less could get me there and back. So, this is where I am coming from and this is what most people would need to be practical for them.

You are in the minority. The fact is the majority of Americans need about 40 miles a day. Anything more is bragging rights and needless overengineering and waste.

The crowd will start laughing when you answer these questions and walk away. I can't blame them because it really does look foolish when you explain it.
You hit the nail on the head. The Chinese aren't leaving us in the dust because of innovation. They are leaving us in the dust because they aren't afraid of what their neighbor thinks. Furthermore, their neighbor isn't laughing at them for working hard to achieve a goal. You are so concerned with what Joe Smith will think of what you drive that you will run to the nearest dealership every three years just like he does so you can drive the latest offering by the OEMs. It is you who is deciding why they don't make electric cars. This country wasn't built on impressing neighbors, but it will be its downfall. You go ahead and point your finger at me and laugh all you want while shipping all your hard earned money to the Middle East and ensuring this country's dependence on foreign oil. But the truth is, no one with more than room temperature IQ will laugh. How far does it go? Further than I ever needed it to go on a single charge. How fast can it go? Faster than the speed limit anywhere I needed it to go. By your logic, if it can't go 80 miles an hour over the posted speed limit and go 100 miles further than I need I shouldn't drive it? And this is because someone will laugh at me? I have a suggestion for you: stop reading this thread, because I can promise you that you will ALWAYS be dissappointed in what I build. I will never build a car that goes way faster than I need to go. I will never build a car that goes further than I could ever hope to drive. You call it selling yourself short. I call it logical. I don't build a car to impress my neighbors. I hope you always impress yours

[Christ]

Paul:

A very empowering response. I applaud you.

I just started driving my Diesel Golf, with 52 HP (new) and 5 speed transmission. No A/C, not even a radio. I LOVE it. I have to hold the throttle to the floor up hills to keep 45 MPH (speed limit) on some of the roads around here. Guess what? I've got 200 miles on the (14 gallon) fuel tank full of "yep, that looks like fuel - throw it in", and it's still over 3/4 tank.

All the guys I work with laughed when I started driving this car to work. I appeared to be laughing with them, but in reality, I was laughing AT them. They're *****ing about sub-20MPG vehicles and gas being $5 a gallon in the near future... meanwhile, I'm driving around on crankcase drainings and transmission fluid.

[vpoppv]

Originally Posted by Christ

Paul:

A very empowering response. I applaud you.

I just started driving my Diesel Golf, with 52 HP (new) and 5 speed transmission. No A/C, not even a radio. I LOVE it. I have to hold the throttle to the floor up hills to keep 45 MPH (speed limit) on some of the roads around here. Guess what? I've got 200 miles on the (14 gallon) fuel tank full of "yep, that looks like fuel - throw it in", and it's still over 3/4 tank.

All the guys I work with laughed when I started driving this car to work. I appeared to be laughing with them, but in reality, I was laughing AT them. They're *****ing about sub-20MPG vehicles and gas being $5 a gallon in the near future... meanwhile, I'm driving around on crankcase drainings and transmission fluid.

You rock! I have been hoarding WVO for a while ( I forgot to pick up 10 gallons Wednesday ). That's exactly the kind of car I want to get! I'm working on filling my second 55 gallon drum of WVO. THIS is the kind of action that will help this country long term!
I have to change the clutch in one of my Geos over Spring Break, so I will have the old clutch plate to make another coupler for the forklift motor I intend to put in E-Sandra. I sure hope I will be back up and running by the end of Spring Break!!! I think I am going through electric car withdrawals.....

[Frank Lee]

THIS is the kind of action that will help this country long term!

If you mean scrounging veggie oil, it will only work if a tiny segment of us do it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but there is not enough waste oil out there for it to become mainstream. I too have a lot of consuming behaviors that are totally awesome and work well for me, but I know that the entire economy would implode if what I do were to be widely adopted.

What will help the country long term is for the consumer to be efficient in their use of resources, and for the population to be at a point where it is not putting undue pressure on resources.

[vpoppv]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

If you mean scrounging veggie oil, it will only work if a tiny segment of us do it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but there is not enough waste oil out there for it to become mainstream. I too have a lot of consuming behaviors that are totally awesome and work well for me, but I know that the entire economy would implode if what I do were to be widely adopted.

What will help the country long term is for the consumer to be efficient in their use of resources, and for the population to be at a point where it is not putting undue pressure on resources.

You're absolutely right. I worded that very poorly. I meant that the sort of thinking you are talking about is what will benefit us most, not the actual use of a little veggie oil. It would be nice if it could put a dent in the 22 million barrels of oil we consume every day, but certainly not within the realm of possibility. What is important is to act TODAY in whatever way we can to make a difference.
I've been interested in building an electric car since high school , but the EV crowd's mantra of "you have to spend $20,000 to convert a car" always kept me away. And for someone to tell me that the car I converted is a black eye to the EV community because of some image we need to uphold is exactly the kind of BS that will keep gas guzzlers king in this country. If I wasn't so naive and believed other people's crap I could have been driving an electric car for the last 20 years.

[Frank Lee]

Oh I see; yes, carry on.

[jackbauer]

vpoppv , I very much agree with your sentiments. I too have been interested in evs for a long time. When the internet came about I read any and all information on the subject but the typical: Motor $2000 , controller $2000 etc killed all hope. Then in the summer of 2009 I watched a series of videos on youtube of a guy taking a forklift motor and putting it in a car. I now have a lifepo4 powered ev that easilly hits 75mph and fullfills all my transport needs. Lots of people laughed , laugh and continue to laugh at me. I don't really care. One of the mistakes all the laughers make is that i'm some treehugger trying to convince them that all cars should be electric. I couldn't give a toss what they drive. As far as i can tell i have the only road legal home built ev in the entire country of Ireland! Drive whatever makes YOU happy. In my case its an ev.

Any idiot can spend money to solve a problem. Any idiot can walk into a dealership and drive out in a new car. Its when you DON'T have money or the dealer WON'T sell the kind of car you want that sorts the men from the boys.

[vpoppv]

Yesterday I spent a good deal of time trying to diagnose what caused the electrical burning smell from the other day and I could not figure it out. I took it out for a drive and could not repeat the problem. I am going to go with the theory that I overheated the motor somehow, although why that day, and no other? Same route, mild weather, all normal conditions. To attempt to tackle the problem that may only be in my head, I will be installing the bilge blower to my motor I bought a while back. It puts out a great deal of air and only has an 8 amp draw at 12 volts. It uses some special expensive 3" hose from boat companies, but I stumbled onto a 3" RV hose at Wal-Mart for $7 that fits perfectly. That's tomorrow's project. Today, I took off all the battery connections and cleaned them (they needed it). I rerouted some of the cabling and secured everything a little better while I was at it. I also moved one of the batteries from the front of the car to the back, because the car always seemed just a little "front heavy" to me. Ideally, I would like to find 6 of those Honda Civic batteries (group 51) because they are exactly half of the group 24 size and only weigh 26 pounds. I think I could put all 6 up front and still be doing great on weight. They're supposed to be good for about 40 Ahrs so that should be more than adequate for my needs. I'm a little worried about the longevity of a strickly "starting" battery as opposed to the deep cycle I am using now, but supposedly these marine batteries aren't true deep cycle anyway. I'm also debating buying a DC/DC converter and running a motorcycle battery as the accessory battery to save even more weight.

[vpoppv]

I'm very satisfied with how the bilge blower turned out. It puts out a significant amount of air. I debated how to have it turn on: temp sensor, switch on the dash, or switched on when the car is turned on. I decided that I wasn't too sure of how reliable a temp sensor on the motor might be, and I didn't want to trust my forgetful self with a dash switch, so I opted for it activating when I turn on the car. If heat may have been a problem before, I don't think it will be now. The one problem I have with this whole setup is that it is kind of noisy.....
The car also handles better with the one battery moved to the back. The height in the back is now exactly at stock height and a half inch lower than stock height in the front. In any case, I'm ready to start commuting in it again. I was starting to get EV withdrawals...