Petrol vs Diesel

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Horses for courses I suppose. Its not on my list. A TDi maybe.



The later ones (the Fiat 500 based ones) are not impressive in Petrol form. The TDCi is expensive but there are a few about.

Just spotted a cheap-ish Mini One D...

Essentially what I'm arguing is that you spend circ 1k on a 8-10 yr old Ka, which you can service yourself for under £40 a time, none of that fiat based frivolity.

As for the Mini, just say no!

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by 320touring

Essentially what I'm arguing is that you spend circ 1k on a 8-10 yr old Ka, which you can service yourself for under £40 a time, none of that fiat based frivolity.

I know what you mean, go for the cheap motoring route. Unfortunately Mrs A won't go for that. I won a car a few years ago, an MG Metro - Classic! As I didn't go anywhere and it was solid I fancied using it as a daily driver but she wouldn't let A Jnr anywhere near it. Anything over 3-4 years is 'old' for her even when it has a fresh MOT and no rust.

Also don't the original KAs crumble quite quickly ?

Originally Posted by 320touring

As for the Mini, just say no!

Already have but its interesting how cheap these things are becoming.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I know what you mean, go for the cheap motoring route. Unfortunately Mrs A won't go for that. I won a car a few years ago, an MG Metro - Classic! As I didn't go anywhere and it was solid I fancied using it as a daily driver but she wouldn't let A Jnr anywhere near it. Anything over 3-4 years is 'old' for her even when it has a fresh MOT and no rust.

Also don't the original KAs crumble quite quickly ?



Already have but its interesting how cheap these things are becoming.

Its a fair comment re the Jnr..

If thats the case then, some Renault based clio age should suffice- all have decent Ncap ratings, and impact absorbing front wings etc

[Arragonis]

Still have to get past the age thing. If it was something big (and of course thirsty) like an Ovlov then she would be fine but then would moan about the age

Got an interesting deal on one of these on a lease to buy :



which is a granny special really but it has a reasonable spec, is a little more solid than the Aygo / 107 / C1 trio from having a poke about in it, and is identical in performance / economy. > 51 MPG on the urban cycle - engine is 2cc smaller than the Aygo one and exactly the same hp / lb-ft

I wouldn't keep the lease / credit I would use it to get the dealer discount on offer and then pay it off asap - I hate credit. Its also used and not new.

I haven't gone for it still mulling.

If Mrs A gets a company car then we have 2 cars to trade in so she wants to wait and see that way. My view is that if I swap to something cheaper we can just sell her car and keep the cash for some house work we need to get done and the pensions could do with an injection of funds after the banks ruined them over the last 24 months.

I'm getting frugal in my old age I think but I'm looking to take money out of car spending and into other things. If I swing it right then I can pay for our part in A Jnr's birthday (he is saving and doing house jobs for the rest) in May and come out slightly ahead.

Maybe.

EDIT - Same "Official" figures for the PIXO (above) as for the C1

Fuel consumption (urban) 51.4 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 74.3 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 64.3 mpg
0 - 62 mph 14 seconds
Top speed 96 mph
Cylinders 3
Valves 12 v
Engine power 68 bhp
Engine torque 66 lbs/ft

It also comes as a Suzuki...

[groar]

The more I think about diesel, the more I want a petrol. I'm currently doing my best with my old diesel, but the 10000 French dying every year because particles isn't worth the small saving I have compared to a small petrol (and I drive 22222km/year = 13800mi/year). See Green Vehicle Guide | US EPA and use the "Look Up Greenest Vehicles" menu for California state to see the cleanest diesel are only at ULEV while a RX450h is at SULEV.

Also I wouldn't risk to make a kill switch on a modern diesel (with high pressure pump).

I also looked at C1/107 and smart for2. I don't really like the twingo and it looks like a toy to my wife's eyes. Sadly any option makes the price to rise very fast, the rpm per example, and lots of options aren't available, cruise control per example (which is a must for me as I want to make A-B-A tests). With all these small cars you have to buy a SGII.

Prius and Insight are at SULEV level since so long... unbreakable and certainly much more fun than small cars.

Both Prius and Insight have great Euro'ncap notation.

A good point for the Prius : it has a plug'in kit available, perfect for small daily commutes Even if I have a long daily commute, this makes a second hand Prius my best wish.

Denis.

[fidalgoman]

Take a look at the new Consumer Reports April, 2011 on vehicle repairs, page 78 and you will see a marked increase in maintenance after only five years. My experience is that certain econo models suffer far worse than the higher end. For me it gets to be a bother that things start to corrode, leak, and fail far too regularly (for a daily driver at least) once the car gets over ten years old and some can be very expensive, sometimes surpassing the value of the car. There are exceptions, but they're just that. Replacing a heater core or clutch for example in some cars is a major and expensive job if you need to have it done. Some peoples pain/annoyance threshold is higher than others. For example we always try to have one newer car and one ten year old car in good condition. Mileage accounts for most maintenance but so does age for the aforementioned kind of issue.

[ShadeTreeMech]

I'm trying to sort what you all are going on about.

I've never owned a vehicle less than 8 years old, and the vast majority have been more than 10 at date of purchase. And the vehicle I had with the fewest miles had only 90k miles on it. Sure, the bit of extra care to keep them maintained take a bit of time, but I've yet to pay more in repair costs plus the cost of the vehicle than even a 3 year old vehicle. And I do put miles on, and my wife tends to love driving a bit too aggressively.

I suppose if my wife complained about a 3 yr old vehicle being old, I'd laugh at her and tell her I'm not made of money. Then again, all that salty sea air may change things considerably. I'm a couple hundred miles inland, so cars tend to last a long time out here. To be quite honest, most autos out here end up being scrapped before their time, so I assume something about Europe drastically shortens the life of vehicles.

Veggie oil in a gasser is something I actually have experimented with rather successfullly. Whenever I have a bit of engine problems, such as lack of power, or suspected clogged injectors, or rough idle, I put in a quart of veggie oil straight from the bottle, a bottle of acetone in the form of original nail polish remover, and the strongest rubbing alcohol I can find (90% is usually the one I go for.)

You'd be suprised how this will get an aged engine running better nearly instantly. And it usually has lasting results.

Whenever I have to change the motor oil, or we change out the cooking oil in the fryers, I'll strain it out with a coffee filter and plop in to as much as a gallon in a full tank with no noticeable change in performance. Even when I put in as much as 1/2 a gallon of veggie oil in a nearly empty tank, the worst I noticed was the exhaust smelled slightly of burnt cooking oil. The smell of the exhaust strikes my ineterst. When it smells strong of unspent fuel, I know I have a problem. If I smell burnt oil, I look for the engine using up oil. I suppose that's why I like e85. Sure it burns a bit more fuel, but it smells a lot better during fueling and while burning it.

[piers.singer]

Mech, I can understand the addition of acetone and alcohol to petrol, but I'm curious: what exactly is the advantage of adding veggie oil? I am reminded of rotary engine enthusiasts who add two-stroke oil to their petrol, although I assume that this is much different.

[AllTerrain9]

Go Petrol!

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by groar

The more I think about diesel...this makes a second hand Prius my best wish.

To buy a MINI I would have to be in touch with my inner git. To buy a Prius I would have to think about my inner saint. Its on the think about it list though. The cheapest one near me is on at £8.5K with 50K on the clock but the dealer selling it is not one I would take a warranty from (Arn*** cl**k) and would be a PITA to deal with. The cheapest dealer one is £10.5K with 30K on the clock which is more than I've ever spent on a car I need to trade so I wouldn't go for a private sale, not many of those anyway. No there are no Insight gen 1s either or Prius Mk1 - they only sold < 100 each of those here.

I'm not convinced about the net polution thing either, the production line of the Prius is several million miles given all the exotic materials being used.

Originally Posted by 320touring

If thats the case then, some Renault based clio age should suffice- all have decent Ncap ratings, and impact absorbing front wings etc

A facelifted Mk2 would just about fit, and they come with nifty tiny DCis as an option as well as petrol. If only Watchdog hadn't screamed so much about the bonnets flying open.

Originally Posted by fidalgoman

...My experience is that certain econo models suffer far worse than the higher end...

They are built to a cost and not a standard granted. The makers sometimes compromise on parts vs warranty and leave the hassle to the owners. The C1/Aygo/107 trio got caught out with the clutch issue on early models - it was costing them more to fix the warranty failures than to fit a better part at the factory, so they changed over.

We (Mrs A and I) have also been stung with high-end money pits (I'm looking at you Volvo...) which end up being uneconomic to keep. For some reason independents wouldn't touch ours and it always ended up back at the dealer we were trying to avoid for ripping us off whenever it needed diagnosis.

How useless / dishonest was that dealer ? They did 4-wheel alignment as it was wearing tyres. They found the rear out but said as it has a solid axle they couldn't fix it they could only replace the axle. Then I pointed out the V70 is FWD with struts at the back...

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech

...
I've never owned a vehicle less than 8 years old, and the vast majority have been more than 10 at date of purchase...

I suppose if my wife complained about a 3 yr old vehicle being old, I'd laugh at her and tell her I'm not made of money....

The contrast here is that the current Mrs A likes to save and also doesn't want anything old - 3 years is extreme, more like maybe 5 would be the limit. I would probably have an average age of 10 years old or so but this is limited by my restricted spannering skills and time plus I do IT and not mechanics so she's not too comfortable with me fixing stuff - although I have done quite a bit over the years.

I also don't do high miles - I got Helga with 26K on the clock 6 years ago (as of Jan 1st) and she has just clicked past 60K. And most of that is suburban driving with a very occasional longer trip - maybe once a month. On longer journeys she is great for FE - 65 average last week for the 2 days I was on the road. To and from work is a struggle to beat 50-55 which is why my overall average is low. Very good for a car this fast but I don't use the fast bit much any more.

And no, there is no public transport alternative.

Originally Posted by AllTerrain9

Go Petrol!

Any more details ?