Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-10-2013, 07:54 PM   #271 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
Unfortunately PSA doesn't make a hotter thermostat for my engine, and the one it does make is wrapped up with some sensors in a plastic housing, so no way to. I could make an openable upper grille block, but that would be overkill: the lower grille already has two independently openable blocks.

Any ideas? Maybe a partial block for the summer?
Add auxiliary thermostat, it's a proven trick.

Renault B14 engine uses radiator hose thermostat which opens at 89 C. Locals are installing these to commonrail mercedes diesels to get the temp up. You'll find a picture of it by searching with a word "letkutermostaatti"

edit. Found Wahler product codes, they'd be 3029.86 3029.89 and 3029.92 for different temps.


Last edited by nackerton; 03-11-2013 at 05:21 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nackerton For This Useful Post:
AndrzejM (03-13-2013), Piwoslaw (03-14-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-13-2013, 05:11 PM   #272 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nackerton View Post
Add auxiliary thermostat, it's a proven trick.

Renault B14 engine uses radiator hose thermostat which opens at 89 C. Locals are installing these to commonrail mercedes diesels to get the temp up. You'll find a picture of it by searching with a word "letkutermostaatti"

edit. Found Wahler product codes, they'd be 3029.86 3029.89 and 3029.92 for different temps.
Interesting. Thanks!
__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 04:04 PM   #273 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,541

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 630 Times in 396 Posts
Since this winter doesn't want to go away (Spring officially started yesterday, but it's still snowing, 25cm expected tonight, and it'll be below freezing for at least another week), I have lots of time to think about engine insulation, cold starts, etc.

I really liked how Brucepick insulated his valve cover with (what I think is) a rubber foam. After reading through his thread I had a long look at my engine and had to frown: The valve cover has plastic on it, plus everything (injectors, glow plugs, cables) is so close together that it would be hard to squeeze any insulation in between. So I looked at the engine block itself, but I can't see it - there are so many things hanging on it, too close to put insulation under them. The only place that has some free surface area is the oil pan, which looks like this:

Over the summer I'll try to insulate the sides to keep more heat from the heating pad in. Also it should keep the oil warmer after killing the engine. I've found rubber foam in all sorts of thicknesses, from 3mm to 25mm, I'll probably settle for ~7mm. I'd like to cover the bottom as well, but the heating pad's instructions warned against that, though I wonder if a thin layer (3-5mm) would do any harm.

Maybe I could insulate the cat converter's housing also, to keep it warm? It is in front of the engine, so it gets hit with cold air coming in through the grille (when open).

Another thought: Since I normally have the intercooler unblocked, the air that goes through it cools the engine bay down. I guess that some fresh, cool air is good in the summer, but what about deflecting that air away from the engine itself - right now it hits the alternator, A/C compressor, and the timing belt cover. This is the end of the engine that needs insulation, I can see this is where most of the heat escapes when preheating.
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell

Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 04:32 AM   #274 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
Since this winter doesn't want to go away (Spring officially started yesterday, but it's still snowing, 25cm expected tonight, and it'll be below freezing for at least another week), I have lots of time to think about engine insulation, cold starts, etc.

I really liked how Brucepick insulated his valve cover with (what I think is) a rubber foam. After reading through his thread I had a long look at my engine and had to frown: The valve cover has plastic on it, plus everything (injectors, glow plugs, cables) is so close together that it would be hard to squeeze any insulation in between. So I looked at the engine block itself, but I can't see it - there are so many things hanging on it, too close to put insulation under them. The only place that has some free surface area is the oil pan, which looks like this:

Over the summer I'll try to insulate the sides to keep more heat from the heating pad in. Also it should keep the oil warmer after killing the engine. I've found rubber foam in all sorts of thicknesses, from 3mm to 25mm, I'll probably settle for ~7mm. I'd like to cover the bottom as well, but the heating pad's instructions warned against that, though I wonder if a thin layer (3-5mm) would do any harm.

Maybe I could insulate the cat converter's housing also, to keep it warm? It is in front of the engine, so it gets hit with cold air coming in through the grille (when open).

Another thought: Since I normally have the intercooler unblocked, the air that goes through it cools the engine bay down. I guess that some fresh, cool air is good in the summer, but what about deflecting that air away from the engine itself - right now it hits the alternator, A/C compressor, and the timing belt cover. This is the end of the engine that needs insulation, I can see this is where most of the heat escapes when preheating.
I've run away from Winter, now I'm in Budapest and going even more to the south on Saturday. But I've heard that there's lots of snow in our country... Anyway I think that oil pan insulation can be a good idea for a hypermiller like you. It's not wise to overheat the oil, but since you don't produce enough waste heat you don't have to worry about that. Or maybe you have an oil heat exchanger oil to coolant. So you'll be on a safe side anyway.

If you want to insulate cat converter you should think of something that can work in a very high temps. Something like this: JEGS Performance Products 32069 JEGS Ultra Hi-Temp Exhaust Wrap

Another thing is tuneling air from IC and radiator. As you may remember Berta has an oem tunnel for air going through IC ant it's very simple to fabricate with a piece of coro.
__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AndrzejM For This Useful Post:
Piwoslaw (03-27-2013)
Old 03-25-2013, 07:13 AM   #275 (permalink)
Permanent Lurker
 
seifrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Czechoslovakia (sort of), Europe
Posts: 325

Dáčenka - '10 Dacia / Renault Logan MCV 1.5 dCi (X90 k9k)
90 day: 47.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 125
Thanked 176 Times in 76 Posts
How is your A/C compressor unit and alternator cooled? Neither of them likes too hot environment, do they? If you completely block acces to fresh cold air, you should worry.

(found this - only in czech - sorry Spalovací motory - Hromádko Jan a kolektiv - Google Books)
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to seifrob For This Useful Post:
Piwoslaw (03-27-2013)
Old 03-25-2013, 07:27 AM   #276 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seifrob View Post
How is your A/C compressor unit and alternator cooled? Neither of them likes too hot environment, do they? If you completely block acces to fresh cold air, you should worry.

(found this - only in czech - sorry Spalovací motory - Hromádko Jan a kolektiv - Google Books)
True, but Piwoslaw drives his Svetlana the way that the engine reaches normal working temps only in a hot summer Joking, but that's not so far from the true... I don't think that it can be a problem for this specific car (driver).
__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 01:48 PM   #277 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Independence, KY
Posts: 606

Blue Meanie - '02 Volkswagon Golf TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 48.52 mpg (US)

Wife's car - '05 WV Passat TDI

Rudy - '94 Chevy C2500
Thanks: 90
Thanked 46 Times in 43 Posts
I would probably only use the electric heater when warming up as I scrape the windows so I will get a little more heat in the cab and the extra load will make the engine warm up a little faster.
__________________
I move at the speed of awesome.


"It's not rocket surgery!" -MetroMPG
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 01:33 AM   #278 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,541

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 630 Times in 396 Posts
Andrzej, thanks for the link to the exhaust cover. My cat is inside an insulated housing, but it still probably gets hotter than the oil pan, for example on long uphills.

As for the oil it is air cooled An oil-coolant heat exchanger would allow the engine to warm up more evenly, but I don't think that the investment is worth while at the moment.

As for the alt and A/C I also think that they need some cooling. On the other hand, a car that is in a traffic jam in the summer will have very high temperatures under the hood, with no breeze to cool it down.

I'm thinking that maybe the post-IC duct could allow a bit of air through - not as much as now, but more than nothing. And of course it would be for colder months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seifrob View Post
Unfortunately I get the following message when I run it through Google Translate:
Quote:
Restricted Page
With this book, you have reached your viewing limit.
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell

Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 07:18 PM   #279 (permalink)
Permanent Lurker
 
seifrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Czechoslovakia (sort of), Europe
Posts: 325

Dáčenka - '10 Dacia / Renault Logan MCV 1.5 dCi (X90 k9k)
90 day: 47.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 125
Thanked 176 Times in 76 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
...Unfortunately I get the following message when I run it through Google Translate: Restricted Page
With this book, you have reached your viewing limit.
seems like me too. sorry about that. There was nothing special - just statement that temperatures over 80°C are undesirable, as they may harm the circuitry in the alternator (i assume there must be some rectifier, feedback circuitry for powering the coils and so on.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 07:39 AM   #280 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
I think it is possible to make a tunnel or just a piece of pipe that will provide fresh air to the alternator. But anyway I don't think that overheating will be a factor here. And after all alternators have a centrifugal fan that is cooling the unit.

__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
grille block, kammback, peugeot, wheel skirts

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
groar's 1997 Megane Modding Thread groar EcoModding Central 95 02-12-2014 12:57 PM
The Golden Egg mod thread. Mostly minivan modding orange4boy EcoModding Central 68 12-15-2011 12:48 PM
groar's 2001 Scenic Modding Thread groar EcoModding Central 4 11-25-2008 08:22 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com