Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-04-2013, 12:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 9,037

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 215
Thanked 2,951 Times in 2,299 Posts
If you are worried about pollution water injection can be used to greatly reduce NOx levels and PM emmissions all while giving better fuel economy and more power.
Edit: for up north you may want to retain the EGR for use in cooler months to aid with warm up.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-04-2013, 01:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,226

Fusion - '16 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
Thanks: 190
Thanked 272 Times in 166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
If you are worried about pollution water injection can be used to greatly reduce NOx levels and PM emmissions all while giving better fuel economy and more power.
Edit: for up north you may want to retain the EGR for use in cooler months to aid with warm up.
IF I am worried about pollution? I would be very ignorant if I wasn't. Shame on anyone who isn't!

EGR isn't good in cold climates. Lots of shellacking, plugging up, etc., unless you use an elevated idle speed - 1000 RPM+. And though I am "up north", it's very mild here all winter long anyway - usually slightly above freezing all winter long.

Do you have good solid empirical data on water injection vs. emissions vs. g/hp-hr? I know the hot rodded diesel pickup guys use it to prevent unwanted large bangs when pushing hard.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
Id hope the environment is considered in everyones quest for mpg. Granted I plan on a new exhaust for my kick, I also plan on adding a high flow cat in place of the oem one. Gasoline engines I thinkwould be easy to add a cat to clean it up, not sure about the diesels. I hear the system collects the soot, then burn it off every so often in a regen cycle. I doubt something like that could be fitted to a diesel lawn mower engine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 808 Times in 592 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PressEnter[] View Post
I have nothing against hybrids, but have no interest in the current Prius. As far as I'm concerned it's just another bloated sedan with no manual option (dealbreaker for me)...
Same here. It's one reason I drive an Insight, the other being that I want only two seats.

The other thing that I dislike about the Prius is the other little design stupidities, like that center-mounted display screen, the ignition switch that doesn't actually turn off the engine...
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,226

Fusion - '16 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
Thanks: 190
Thanked 272 Times in 166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb View Post
Gasoline engines I thinkwould be easy to add a cat to clean it up, not sure about the diesels. I hear the system collects the soot, then burn it off every so often in a regen cycle. I doubt something like that could be fitted to a diesel lawn mower engine.
There are passive DPFs out there that do not require active regeneration. They do not work in light load applications because there is not enough engine heat to oxidize the collected soot in the DPF. Soot oxidation requires 600F minimum. If you installed a DPF on your diesel lawn mower and kept the engine loaded enough to maintain 600F+ EGT, it would probably work.

A modern, active DPF actually has two parts: the catalyst and the DPF. When soot buildup needs to be burned off, the engine supplies raw diesel fuel, either sprayed into the exhaust post-turbocharger (separate injector or "doser") or sprayed in cylinder via fuel injectors during the exhaust stroke. This fuel is carried by the hot exhaust into the catalyst where it hits the platinum and oxidizes, making LOTS of heat in order to oxidize the soot collected in the DPF. Normal active regeneration temps are regulated at ~1000-1200F, where soot is rapidly oxidized - about 20 minutes at this temperature clears out most of the collected soot.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 02:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 506 Times in 211 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
To throw a wrench in the discussion, I found a biodiesel vs diesel emissions chart. It kind of goes against what I thought about biodiesel:
http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-ba...fact-sheet.pdf
That comparison was done with all pre-1997 engines. It's really unfair to try to say that the fuel itself makes emissions go up or down by a certain percentage--especially with all the new electronic controls and aftertreatment--it's tough to know how the controls respond. In my experience, most of the "modern" (EGR, common rail, etc.) diesels have larger NOx increases and larger PM decreases than the older diesels.

It all depends on how you run the engine and how the controls work. When I was in grad school I made a controls algorithm that sensed biodiesel via an O2 sensor and then modified the control strategy to keep engine-out NOx, PM, & efficiency as good or better than conventional diesel (with a 2007 Cummins 6.7L):

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/dai...11/#clip405284
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html



Last edited by Diesel_Dave; 03-04-2013 at 04:41 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Diesel_Dave For This Useful Post:
mechman600 (03-04-2013), UFO (03-04-2013)
Old 03-04-2013, 03:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,226

Fusion - '16 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
Thanks: 190
Thanked 272 Times in 166 Posts
I was assuming the use of a pre-DPF engine. I don't think I would risk running bio-D in a common rail engine - the tolerances are too tight and the room for error is too great. Consider that the secondary filters are now, what, 5 microns? 3? I forget. A set of injectors and a HP pump head would cost you about $4500 + labor.
Believe me, I have changed a few!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
calfianu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 49
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to calfianu
I am not a hater. At least not on a engineering product that consist in the hard work of a lot of people. On the other side hate is a gate to the bad side of "The Force" . On the other hand I become suspicions and allergic to the imbecilities of the politicians and corporations. An "eco" car is a not build one. Prolonging the life of an existing car, even if in terms of emission is not so evaluated, is far more beneficial for the planet than scraping it and buy another one. Oups! that is no so good for business... If the motivation for politicians would have been the health of the planet, they would go in the direction of developing KIT system for current cars on accessible prices and encourage of conservation of the current running cars, dropping the craziness of production of new cars. But is obviously not the case, so all taxation and regulations for me are just pretext for making more money to tax the nontaxable. And they are successful because we are doing a lousy job questioning and controlling our representatives. That is a different story. I like the "principle of the condenser" to sore the extra energy and to release it when needed. Everything else, in my opinion, is excessive and not economical.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 506 Times in 211 Posts
I think the big issue is that accuratly defining terms like "clean", "green", and "eco-friendly" is not an easy task--even by people who are trying to be honest, fair, and objective.

This is particularly true since most to these definitions involve comparing something that does exist to some alternative that is assumed would have existed in it's place.
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html



Last edited by Diesel_Dave; 03-04-2013 at 04:43 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,594

RippinRoo - '05 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
Subaru
90 day: 21.16 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

Olga - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon
90 day: 46.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 303
Thanked 310 Times in 186 Posts
As an owner of an older VW TDI, I am obviously biased so it is no surprise that I prefer the diesels. I like that I can go from pure dino-diesel to pure bio-diesel (or anywhere in between) with little to no penalty in FE. I like that it is a manual transmission, which my wife (thankfully) also prefers. I like that I have a lifetime average FE of over 50mpg with both my wife and I driving, despite the fact that she is not nearly as good at hypermiling as I am. And I like that locally we have an amazing TDI support group, so getting things fixed or upgraded is not nearly as expensive as going to the dealer or even an independent shop.

The smell and noise is a bit subjective, and I have to admit I like both. It's probably because I grew up around them. The sound of a diesel at cruise or the sound of the turbo spooling up or down is music to my ears. Weird, I know.

I do like the concept of the Prius, but I wouldn't want one. If I lived, worked, and shopped within a city and rarely made it onto a freeway, I might feel differently. But I am glad they exist and that they are getting significantly better FE than the vast majority of new vehicles. And I'm glad that they are helping drive a 'hybrid revolution', which helps bump the overall FE of all new cars with that technology. Short of not building new cars (as calfianu suggested), hybrids seem to be a reasonable stepping stone for the 100mpg(e)+ cars.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com