07-28-2010, 11:59 PM
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#131 (permalink)
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Left Lane Ecodriver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
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Whoops, I haven't been following this thread since last week, and just as it got very interesting!
I completely agree with Mr. Kuttner's analysis and design philosoply, and I'm glad to see it looks like his team is about win the mainstream category and the $5m purse.
It's pretty funny, after my recent success with using ice to keep the driver cool, to read about a very well funded team doing something similar. I'm almost surprised they didn't use something more exotic (cryogenic, perhaps), but ice is actually extremely potent stuff.
@Neil: design for minimum A/C load is a great idea. Several of the things you mentioned can help a great deal, especially blowing dry air across sweaty passengers. Though at some point, I can tell you from experience, it's not enough and you need to introduce something cold. The 95°F limit that XPF set is a reasonable number.
Here's a photo gallery of the WWU car: MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist - Western Washington University X-Prize car
It's cool to see all the Insight parts: the engine from an angle you don't often see it, a Civic hybrid battery housing, painted Insight wheels, and an Insight instrument cluster looking out of place in an otherwise unpolished cockpit.
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Today
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Other popular topics in this forum...
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07-29-2010, 12:30 AM
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#132 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2008
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From Facebook:
Quote:
Illuminati Motor Works We have returned from MIS victorious: friendships renewed, people educated about the true MPGe & range capable by EVs, and industry-leading VIPs squealed like little girls when driven in Seven.
Granted, Kevin was throwing them about in tight circles, burning rubber on the pavement, and spinning Seven at close to 0.9G, b...ut I swear everyone was giddy w/ excitement & not screaming to be let out of the car.
Oh, and we'd like to thank everyone for not puking in the rear-facing back seat. As the night wore on, the open bar made that a bit of a concern.
PIAXP knows how to put on a party!
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Wolfgang of TW4XP and Kevin Smith of IMW pose after taking a wild ride in Seven.
One EV towing another! IMW Seven tows the much heavier Tango across MIS to the weigh-in station before a race. (All cars must be pushed or towed to the start line in order to accurately measure fuel usage during the race).
Kevin Smith and Eric Lane in front of the Aptera trailer.
Seven's dealership window sticker was a big hit.
Rick Woodbury and his Tango, waiting in the staging area for the next test.
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07-29-2010, 12:32 AM
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#133 (permalink)
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Pokémoderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
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Neil -
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
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Oh, I almost forgot -- the 6th side-by-side was the Western Washington University Viking #45 car, and they had a damaged suspension, which is why they didn't pass the lane change test, and they didn't run in the race.
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Hmmm, that's too bad. I'll look at their website for the story on how it happened.
CarloSW2
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07-29-2010, 12:33 AM
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#134 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Here is a long Facebook post from Oliver Kuttner, owner of Edison2:
Quote:
Oliver Kuttner to Progressive Automotive X PRIZE: It was certainly one of the biggest races of the century: The ingredients were 5 cars, 2.5 million on the line and a speed limit of 70 mph and a sikane with no restrictions. The distance was 100 miles with electric prototypes with cockpit cooling requirements...: It was a setup for excitement and it turned out to be...
The X Prize officials took great care in setting up the left - right bend, straight (about 150 yards) and right- left bend. They asked my two drivers to test it as we had been done with our events. Emanuelle thought it was too fast and to... prove it he took the Prius sideways through it with almost no slowing down, The two judges in the car got a taste of what a formula 1 driver can do. It was all good fun and in time the judges perfected the course. I have been living in a pressure cooker but stangely after our 95 car went by the wayside due to our own error (after seeing the shikane it was a 2.5 million dollar error likely) it became easier, yet I felt for the 5 teams which were going to race.
In the morning I decided to suggest one more time that to take the edge out the teams should make an internal prize sharing agreement. I felt for everyone in the room and this" all or nothing" going on forever is hard. It could be anyones race... Later I found out that ll but the Finnish team did sign on and I am very glad for this. I feel nothing but respect for all the teams and consider all friends, I suspect the Finns could not sign on as they were an university.
As the cars were in the breezeway you could feel the tension. Our crew came in full numbers to wish them well. With fewer than 200 people there a green flag dropped 20 seconds apart, my wife took the splits on the I phone and I wrote them down. X P has more accurate timing but I wanted to track the event as I knew it would be close and I wanted to know what I was seeing).
The first out was TW4XP at 11:03:20 followed by the Finnish team 23.9 seconds later... Th n it was Zap, Li Ion and last Aptera.
As soon as the race was off we went to the shikane as there was the only place you could really pass / legally. The Finns were at a high speed right away lap times suggesting 69 mph. Aptera went into the shikane and rolled out streight and stalled out. The Zap looked strong. It was closing in ever so slowly. TW4XP was going a slower pace perhaps 64 mph but it to my surprise was going through the shikane very fast, perhaps the fastest... Li -on seemed to stumble at the entrance of the shikane but then stabilized with a 15 second deficit. Zap was on but the Finnish were relentless and their machine looked very good. They were in control. The entire event Sammy and his people were nothing but impressive. They were firm, precise and intelligent. I grew to very much like Sammy as his comments were usually spot on and it was clear that he knew how to do math...
Aptera was back in and Li ion was stabilized. The distance seemed to remain around 15 seconds.
Then i got a phone call... When I got back Li ion was gaining and 9 seconds interval. Zapp had fallen off and TW4XP and Aptera were on a firm pace. All cars looked confident going through the shikane which was modeled wisely after the bus stop in Daytona. The entire race a single cone was moved. This was for 2.5 million and it was real. The small crowd at the fence was "on" also. The man from the DOE was timing and he told me the split was down to 7 seconds. The movie crews had left and it was the few of us who knew how close it was.
No doubt the drivers also knew. The pressure was on.
With 1.5 laps to go the gap was 3 seconds and with .5 laps the gap was less than 1 second.
In the end Li ion came from behind and won by .2 seconds after 100 miles. Early on they had the same problem as Aptera, Coming with 100% state of charge batteries when hitting the decel into the shikane they generated so much regen that, in the Aptera they lost a breaker... in the li ion the driver was quick to notice and heroically made it through avoiding a lethal overcharge. Thereafter he took the shikane slower until he got to 95 % state of charge and then he relentlessly tested the limit... The Finns avoided this problem, they had done the math...
There was an epic race on Tuesday, There will be 4 $ winners because the spirit of friendship in the garage pulled us all together, In my book there are 5 winners though I have nothing but respect for the Finnish team Well done guys and I am sorry to hear that the pressure cooker got you YOU all have what it takes to win later in life. This is where I wish I had more resources...
The cars were all on the edge and none had anything left at the end but they were the best electric cars have to offer for now and it was great to see.
These teams are the people who are not just talking, they are doing it.
I am very moved and proud to have shared garage with this group of people all of them and I have shared many garages with much more fame...
I cried from the tension. And the world did not see any of it even though the setup was clear as day before,
Forgive me as I am not a writer but this moment deserves to be shared
regards Oliver
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07-29-2010, 12:44 AM
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#135 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2008
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Here's the official results!
Quote:
Team Li-Ion finished first by a narrow 0.179 seconds! RaceAbout placed second and TW4XP third by 11 minutes, 36.9 seconds.
ZAP completed 48 laps and Aptera completed 18 laps. Both experienced mechanical issues that forced them off the track before completing the test.
There were a few penalties assessed for speed violations:
· Team Li-ion received 1 penalty for driving under 45 mph
· RaceAbout received 2 penalties for exceeding 70 mph
· TW4XP had 4 penalties for being under 45 mph
Mileage numbers are proving impressive given the stress of this real world challenge on the contenders. For those who completed the race, Team Li-Ion achieved a respectable 125 MPGe and RaceAbout achieved 100 MPGe. Though placing third, TW4XP achieved a remarkable 138.9 MPGe.
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Progressive Automotive X PRIZE: A Race to the Finish!
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07-29-2010, 10:56 AM
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#136 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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07-29-2010, 11:34 AM
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#137 (permalink)
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...beats walking...
Join Date: Jul 2009
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...digital oscilloscopes to the (analytical) rescue!
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07-29-2010, 06:07 PM
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#138 (permalink)
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The road not so traveled
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Mexico
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The Tango looks like it would get blown over easily in a stiff cross wind.
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07-29-2010, 08:53 PM
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#139 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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07-30-2010, 11:19 AM
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#140 (permalink)
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The road not so traveled
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Lowering the roof line will help ALOT, having weight in the bottom will help, but I have serious doubts that that car as it is would survive our spring winds.
Let me describe our winds, then maybe you will understand.
Every spring it is common to have sustained winds of 40+, with gusts of 50+. At least once a year we will have gusts exceeding 60mph. Its not just the winds by themselves either, we also have canyons and mountains which will funnel the wind and speed it up in localized areas. For example I-25 runs north-south between Albuquerquq and Las Cruces, along the Rio Grande valley. There are numerous canyons that run perpendicular to the road. Where the road cuts through the hill between canyons we will often get a vortex that actually pushes the cars in the opposite direction of the winds. Then when you leave that section you are crossing a canyon where the wind is accelerated. You should see the tractor trailer rigs rock back and fourth when they go through these sections, its impressive that they don't get knocked over very often.
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