Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-06-2009, 07:33 PM   #241 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,534

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 57.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 6,979 Times in 3,614 Posts
A-B-A results

Conditions:

Grenadier Island Past 24 Hour Conditions
Date / Time (EST) ... Conditions ... Temp (°C) ... Humidity (%) ... Dew Point (°C) ... Wind (km/h) ... Pressure (kPa) ... Vis (km) ... Wind Chill
15:00 ... N/A ... 2 ... 59 ... -5 ... calm ... 101.8 ... N/A ... *
14:00 ... N/A ... 2 ... 57 ... -5 ... W 2 ... 101.7 ... N/A ... *

Speed: 90 km/h (56 mph)

Route: straight & practically level 1.6 km stretch of 2-lane highway, no other traffic ahead of me in my lane, infrequent oncoming vehicles in the other lane.

A = boat tail on
B = boat tail off

Readings in MPG (US):
Code:
    east    west    avg    
A    66.4    62.6    64.5    
A    65.2    62.8    64    
A    65    64.4    64.7    64.4 (avg these A runs)

B    56    56.6    56.3    
B    55.9    56.5    56.2    
B    54.3    56.3    55.3    55.93333333 (avg B runs)

A    65    64.3    64.65    
A    64.2    64    64.1    64.375 (avg these A runs)
64.39 A avg (all A runs)
55.93333333 B avg

15.1% improvement, A over B

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
3-Wheeler (12-07-2009), AntiochOG (10-12-2010), Cd (12-06-2009), Christ (12-06-2009), Daox (12-07-2009), Funny (12-07-2009), NeilBlanchard (12-07-2009), orange4boy (12-06-2009), PaleMelanesian (12-07-2009), Piwoslaw (12-07-2009), TEiN (12-07-2009), thatguitarguy (12-06-2009)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-06-2009, 07:35 PM   #242 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,585
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 1,121 Times in 679 Posts
Holy HELL !!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 07:37 PM   #243 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 389

2003 Ninja EX250 - '03 Kawasaki Ninja EX250
90 day: 78.57 mpg (US)

Saturn - '99 Saturn SL1 Base
90 day: 47.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 25
Thanked 58 Times in 37 Posts
Very nice improvement! I'd assume the "B" tests were done with the Kamm spoiler on the car, and the "A" tests were with the boat tail (And both had your belly pan). That means full boat tailing improves aero 15% over a kamm spoiler! Excellent!
__________________
Doing my part to reduce dependence on OIL
Doing my part to reduce congestion
And enjoying it!

If you have to use your brakes, you are driving too fast!

My 101.5 MPG 2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250




Crude Oil Price Today
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 07:53 PM   #244 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,534

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 57.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 6,979 Times in 3,614 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
Were you able to use the information from the test to find the cars new Cd, or will that have to wait ?
I only did constant speed testing, so it'll have to wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Why cover up the sides of the tail lights? ... or you're using your OE tail lights with an extension harness?
Nerys was right: the lights weren't covered, the OE harness was extended to mount them on the end of the tail. EG: see pics in post 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
And you ( of coarse ) accounted for the weight difference right ?

What is the weight of the 'tail anyways ?
Nope! Which means ... the boat tail is slightly more effective than the ABA runs indicate. I figure it weighs in the 10-15 lbs range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguitarguy View Post
If you're talking about Darin's experimental design, I think that in heavy crosswinds, it would tear itself free of the vehicle (creating another set of problems), or at least partially collapse.
It would have to be a seriously strong crosswind (talking storm force). This thing is remarkably secure on the car - I've demo'd this to several skeptical observers by grabbing hold at the rear and wrenching the whole car side to side & up and down using the tail as the lever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
a well-aimed gust could be sufficient to force the tail down
You're describing downforce on the tail. I'd expect lift on the rear wheels and increased pressure on the fronts, if anything. Have a looksee at the cross-sectional shape a few posts up where you can see its outline detached from the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theycallmeebryan View Post
I'd assume the "B" tests were done with the Kamm spoiler on the car, and the "A" tests were with the boat tail (And both had your belly pan)
Right. The only thing changed between A & B runs was the boat tail. The full undertray was in place for the B runs.

FYI, the incomplete A-B testing (at the same speed) of the Kammback suggested it was good for a 4.9% improvement over stock.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 07:53 PM   #245 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,534

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 57.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 6,979 Times in 3,614 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
Holy HELL !!!!
Yeah, I was pretty pleased too! It's not bad for a sub-optimal design.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 08:54 PM   #246 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Madison AL
Posts: 1,123

The Geo - '93 Geo Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 45.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 30
Thanked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Wow 15%. That with an alt delete would pretty much = MPG bliss.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 09:06 PM   #247 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
So to figure out what it would do for a "normal" Metro, you'd add the kamm's original gain into the 15% for the boat tail, right?

That would make for some 25% improvement boat tail over OE design, IIRC?

44MPG rating + another 25% is 55 mippigs!!! That's huge!
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 09:10 PM   #248 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,534

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 57.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 6,979 Times in 3,614 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonMPG View Post
Wow 15%. That with an alt delete would pretty much = MPG bliss.
Exactly! And the % gain from the alternator delete is going to be proportionately higher with the boat tail than without. Its load on the engine is more or less constant, but the total load has dropped. So I'd expect a better than 10% improvement combined with the boat tail.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 09:14 PM   #249 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Wow. Just wow.

And aerodynamically speaking, the tail could be somewhat more aggressive than yours, right? So it could end up shorter by some amount, which (technically) means that it could be slightly better (if optimal) even than what you've gotten already...

Does it get better than this?

So what were you thinking in your head for an estimate of performance while testing?

Did you think the first couple runs were glitches? I mean... a 15% improvement is huge to see...
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2009, 09:19 PM   #250 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Leadville, CO
Posts: 509

Maroon Ballon - '98 Chrysler Town & Country LXI
90 day: 26.42 mpg (US)

MaEsTRO - '95 Geo Metro 5spd hatch, 3 cyl
Thanks: 47
Thanked 54 Times in 38 Posts
I couldn't tell from the picture if this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post


wheel tail is a part of the final tested structure.

Congratulations!! 15% over the modifications you already have is really significant. And as light as cardboard is, Coroplast is lighter and stronger. Electrical connections would be easy with a trailer type setup, and if you can figure out an attachment scheme that is easier than duct tape, you have a very successful removable boattail!

So cool!!

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
boat tail, testing



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project: Rebuilding an '01 Honda Insight as a nonhybrid Fabio Hybrids 158 01-12-2013 12:59 PM
How to get instant fuel consumption from Megasquirt TELVM Instrumentation 11 08-29-2011 03:47 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com