Quiet motorcycles/scooters

[sendler]

So you would rather have to lube a chain every 500 miles? Which for you is every other day. Than do nothing but just ride a belt? Based on your experience with the mediocre fuel efficiency of the Burgman, you are under a preconception that you would have to change gearing on the PCX (Which is available via DrPulley sliders in the vario for $40 or final drive gear set for $150). Is 93 mpgUS not good enough?
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There are no high efficiency shaft drive bikes.
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Michelin City Grip tires will last 30,000 front and 18,000 rear. Tire cost for a PCX will be slightly less than a car. But it will use half of the gas of a Prius and costs 14% as much to buy. You can find used ones all day long for $2,000.
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The only other highway capable bike that can approach 90 mpgUS is the CBR250R if you really want to shift gears.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by sendler

So you would rather have to lube a chain every 500 miles? Which for you is every other day. Than do nothing but just ride a belt? Based on your experience with the mediocre fuel efficiency of the Burgman, you are under a preconception that you would have to change gearing on the PCX (Which is available via DrPulley sliders in the vario for $40 or final drive gear set for $150). Is 93 mpgUS not good enough?
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There are no high efficiency shaft drive bikes.
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Michelin City Grip tires will last 30,000 front and 18,000 rear. Tire cost for a PCX will be slightly less than a car. But it will use half of the gas of a Prius and costs 14% as much to buy. You can find used ones all day long for $2,000.
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The only other highway capable bike that can approach 90 mpgUS is the CBR250R if you really want to shift gears.

Lube? No. Dry chains last longer, as they don't collect as much garbage. Any o-ring or x-ring chain has all the lubricant it needs sealed into where it needs it. Keep chain clean, and no problems. Once a week, wipe off with a rag, I'm willing to do that much, at least.

But to the point: You have the CVT pulley faces, and there are 4 of them, and they DO WEAR. They change the characteristics of the transmission over time, and cause additional belt wear as they get further worn down. The clutch, while it lasted all 26,500 miles on the Burgman, was threatening NOT to for the last 5,000 or so miles.

Sliders don't really make a difference in the min/max ratio's, but merely how fast the transmission shifts through those ratios. For reference, I saw a MILD change in engine characteristics running 50% heavier (homemade) sliders. I suspect the heavier sliders had something to do with a bearing failure at 25,000 on the Burgman.*

An aggravating circumstance is that I'm currently driving a slushbox in the car, and it's driving me bat-**** insane. (Well, I mean, I already am, but moreso...)

My Burgman peaked at 81 MPG. It had a LOT more on tap, so does the PCX. It's rated for 100, actually. But the Stella 4-stroke is rated for 140+, with a similar engine, except for air-cooling, which I've heard generally lowers MPG.

And whatever a bike gets stock is NEVER good enough. I thought that was consensus on this forum.

And I would hope the PCX had significantly cheaper tires. I used to pay $50 for my Burgman tires, I dropped $125 each on car tires last time around.


*Said bearing failure involved the ball bearing immediately behind the front pulley suddenly shifting it's inner race to the left about 1/4" during operation, which forced the pulley into the housing, shutting me down temporarily. (Not violently, but it made enough racket in the early morning I couldn't continue riding) I shimmed the housing and rode another 1,500 miles on said bearing (as replacement required a COMPLETE engine teardown), but it concerned me greatly the entire time.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

Lube? No. Dry chains last longer, as they don't collect as much garbage. Any o-ring or x-ring chain has all the lubricant it needs sealed into where it needs it. Keep chain clean, and no problems.

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You have many strong preconceptions so there is no point in me discussing this with you any further. Good luck getting a chain and sprockets to last more than 5,000 if you never lube it.
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Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

Sliders don't really make a difference in the min/max ratio's, but merely how fast the transmission shifts through those ratios. .

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Again you have apparently never really read up on how the DrPulley sliders work to increase gear ratio on both ends. Engineering genius, where each surface dimension is optimized to do it's specific job. Unlike a round roller. Very cool design. I wish i had thought of it. And they last forever.
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Burgman 400's are showing about 60 mpgUS on Fuelly.
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Suzuki Burgman 400 Mileage | Fuelly
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Air cooled is usually better on fuel economy due to the much higher cylinder head temps and no parasitic drag of a coolant pump but they make less power and are less reliable.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

Lube? No. Dry chains last longer, as they don't collect as much garbage.

No wonder some small motorcycles targetted to under-developed markets have chain covers, so the chains wouldn't collect residues when properly lubed.

[sendler]

DuPont dry wax chain lube with Teflon is my recommendation. Every 500 miles as stated in every motorcycle owners manual as the industry standard lube interval. It's not so much for the chain's pins as it is for the exterior of the chain where it runs on the sprockets.
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Amazon.com: Finish Line Dupont Teflon Chain-Saver Dry, Wax Lubricant CS0110101: Automotive
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[roosterk0031]

18,000 miles in 3 months, assuming your getting paid IRS minimum of something like $0.50 a mile, that's $9,000, if you keep that up for 6 months it'd cover a brand new Mirage, and have lower operating cost than most bikes and scooters.

I've done 3,000 mile months and had to replace a rear tire within that month.

NC700 is a neat bike, 65 estimated mpg is pretty good. Probably $150 mounted per front tires, will last 9000 miles, $0.017/mile. Rear tire about $200 mounted, maybe 6000 miles, 0.033/mile. That's $0.05 per mile tires only. Maybe you can mount your own as knock that down a little bit. $0.04/mile in fuel.

Somewhere where around $0.10 per mile operating cost or equal to a 25 mpg.

Here a spreadsheet I think someone else on here created kind of neat to play with an input different cost associated with vehicle operation.

[Grant-53]

This is a decision that will ultimately be made based on the economics of price per mile over the life of the vehicle. This would include depreciation, insurance, licensing as well as maintenance costs. Consider availability of parts and service to minimize down time. The issues of safety and comfort must be considered. In Ohio there is snow and cold six months of the year. This could require snow tires or dual sport treads. A liquid cooled engine would allow for a heater core inside a fairing.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

18,000 miles in 3 months, assuming your getting paid IRS minimum of something like $0.50 a mile, that's $9,000, if you keep that up for 6 months it'd cover a brand new Mirage, and have lower operating cost than most bikes and scooters.

I'm not paid per mile, but per delivery. I average more than that minimum, though.

Originally Posted by Grant-53

In Ohio there is snow and cold six months of the year. This could require snow tires or dual sport treads. A liquid cooled engine would allow for a heater core inside a fairing.

I've ridden in snow without, though having a car now, I might opt to take that when the weather is rough.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

No wonder some small motorcycles targetted to under-developed markets have chain covers, so the chains wouldn't collect residues when properly lubed.

Yeah, why can't I find those here without stepping into a fabrication shop?

Originally Posted by sendler

Again you have apparently never really read up on how the DrPulley sliders work to increase gear ratio on both ends. Engineering genius, where each surface dimension is optimized to do it's specific job. Unlike a round roller. Very cool design. I wish i had thought of it. And they last forever.

Oh, I did look into those when I had my Burgman, but they can only do what the pulleys themselves will allow, nothing more.

To clarify: the sliders don't control the min/max ratios. The pulley sizes and angles do. The sliders control where in the overall ratio range the transmission is at any given moment. Stock sliders can tend to "downshift" at very high speeds, limiting top speed and increasing revs at high cruising speeds, while the Dr. Pulley's force the CVT to stay in it's top ratio once spun up. This gives the illusion of a ratio change, without actually changing the ratios.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

changing the ratios.

DrPulley sliders do actually change the top ratio on many scooters including the PCX. The stock rollers run up against the end of the ramps before the pulley halves are touching, forming the limit of travel. There is always virgin metal that the belt never touches on the outer portion of the front pulleys with the rollers. The sliders are thinner at the side that comes up against the end of the ramp so they travel out further, moving the variator through additional range of motion to take the belt all the way out to the edge. It is a cheap and easy 7% increase in top speed at redline and the stock 18gm weights are too heavy anyway. My 12 gm sliders pull at about 7,900 rpm. 11 gm might be even quicker with the rpm even closer to the 8,300 rpm power peak.
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There are a couple final drive up gear kits available but I am content with a 71 mph top speed and 100 mpgUS on 55 mph back roads for now. If I want to run 70 on the highway to work, I take the CBR250R and get 90 mpgUS.

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by sendler

DrPulley sliders do actually change the top ratio on many scooters including the PCX. The stock rollers run up against the end of the ramps before the pulley halves are touching, forming the limit of travel. There is always virgin metal that the belt never touches on the outer portion of the front pulleys with the rollers. The sliders are thinner at the side that comes up against the end of the ramp so they travel out further, moving the variator through additional range of motion to take the belt all the way out to the edge. It is a cheap and easy 7% increase in top speed at redline and the stock 18gm weights are too heavy anyway. My 12 gm sliders pull at about 7,900 rpm. 11 gm might be even quicker with the rpm even closer to the 8,300 rpm power peak.
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There are a couple final drive up gear kits available but I am content with a 71 mph top speed and 100 mpgUS on 55 mph back roads for now. If I want to run 70 on the highway to work, I take the CBR250R and get 90 mpgUS.

I think you might find that the DrPulley's do as I described: make the variator stay in it's highest ratio even when max throttle is applied.

Though, I'm willing to concede the possibility that the PCX is different from the Burgman. (I honestly don't know) On the latter, the pulley's simply did not move far enough to use up this virgin metal. I removed the rear spring to see how far they do move, and it's to the edge the belt makes in the pulleys, no further.