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Old 10-12-2015, 08:00 AM   #31 (permalink)
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How many years of leasing would pay for a car? It would stop being new, but at some point you will stop paying the bank for it, and you should have at least 100-150,000 miles without significant repairs.

I think that my Civic had issues known to the previous owner, that the mechanics did not find during their inspection, but I have paid $1,437.37 in repairs over twenty-three months, which works out to $62.49 monthly, and how much am I saving in insurance, on a car yielding a lifetime average of 46 MPG?

The Fit, Fiesta SFE, and Scion IQ (A two-seater) are each rated more fuel efficient than my car. There are probably others, not counting the hybrids.

By the way, there are six members on here reporting fuel economy on 2005 Prii. Their average mileage is 46.79.

But you said new cars. The 2005 Prius was rated 46 MPG average. The 2015 is 50. If you figure they would get 1.7% over EPA like they do on the 2005s (the six owners actually report slightly lower numbers), then they would achieve 50.86 MPG! The EPA estimates that they would save $1,750 over five years.

That is actually less than half of what they would save on repairs at the current rate that my car needs them. $5,500 over six years sounds like a great deal of money, but $91.66 monthly is a fraction of a car payment and the additional insurance.

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Old 10-12-2015, 09:27 AM   #32 (permalink)
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RE: Your right aluminum does corrode

Your right aluminum does corrode would be interesting to hear from another owner who lives up here in the salt zone to see how their insights have held up from a corrosion standpoint.

I did read about one insight that spend a few years in long island and the owner said it had much more corrosion/pitting.

I thing about aluminum is it corrodes much slower than steel/iron usually.

IMO auto makers should manufacture vehicles impervious to rust from the git go. To do that you would have to eliminate lots of creature / safety comforts to keep cost down.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:28 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsterpower View Post
You said it yourself, NY is picky at inspection time. They are not going to like a VX engine in an insight.
Also aluminum does not rust but it still corrodes with salt. I have had numerous aluminum Honda parts crumble on my civics over the years.
Hate to say it but if your goal is to spend the least on gas and repairs- lease a new car.
But if OP's goal is to spend the least overall, I wouldn't recommend leasing a car.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltothewolf View Post
The insight is old, and it definitely shows it. Inside the cabin is SUPER loud, it's uncomfortable, and slow.
Not so. Admittedly it's not a Rolls, but it's not particularly loud. Comfort is subjective, of course, but for me it's well above average - certainly better than the overstuffed, bolt-upright seating of the typical SUV. And it is pretty quick, though that may be down to driver reaction time. At least I seem to leave most vehicles well behind when leaving stoplights &c, and that without particularly trying.
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Old 10-12-2015, 02:05 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoboy View Post
IMO auto makers should manufacture vehicles impervious to rust from the git go.
Or maybe you could work on stopping your state from dumping megatons of corrosive* chemicals.

*Not to mention environmentally harmful. Ever read ancient history, where if some people really, really didn't like their enemies, they conquered them and sowed their land with salt?
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Old 10-12-2015, 04:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Not so. Admittedly it's not a Rolls, but it's not particularly loud. Comfort is subjective, of course, but for me it's well above average - certainly better than the overstuffed, bolt-upright seating of the typical SUV. And it is pretty quick, though that may be down to driver reaction time. At least I seem to leave most vehicles well behind when leaving stoplights &c, and that without particularly trying.
What MPG do you get? Accelerating to 'leave most vehicles behind' means pulling a lot from the battery. When you have to regen that later, the tradeoff is usually not worth it.
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Old 10-12-2015, 04:50 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltothewolf View Post
What MPG do you get? Accelerating to 'leave most vehicles behind' means pulling a lot from the battery. When you have to regen that later, the tradeoff is usually not worth it.
I often do that myself, but after a recent grid charge my battery is as strong as ever. Just today I ran with 5-6ish bars of assist to the top of a mountain, and after probably 12-15 minutes of climbing, I still had 3 bars left.

My late summer tanks were around 80mpg, but I think we're on winter gas now and it's getting cold so it's starting to creep down toward the upper 60's.

The super low tanks in my log are from pulling a half ton of stuff in my trailer, and from helping my family to move. During one trip I actually hauled a 130 year old piano over a mountain.
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:38 PM   #38 (permalink)
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RE: Found an econobox

Put down $200 on an Geo Prizm Auto today. Not an insight, but should do the trick. I am hoping it will move me from 15 mpg to 30 mpg. It is inspected until September 2016. So that is fine by me. If I complete all the Jeep repairs it will run over $1,200 and this will be around $800. I figure I can sell my Jeep and just about break even.

Don't get me wrong the Jeep is a very nice comfortable ride. To me comfort is having a nice big cushy, fully adjustable seat and getting 60 mpg. Don't care about all the other stuff. It is very quiet compared to a Geo, but the gas is a killer.

If figure I can use that 50% saving to help fund my insight purchase. I got my heart set on a nice Gen I Insight. To all the insight complainers and whiners out there I challenge you to just spec out the price of the aluminum. Not scrap I am talking 6061 structural aluminum extruded tubing.

I read somewhere Honda lost $14,000 per car on the insight. To me just a good aluminum chassis with no engine has a core valve of $3k. Been looking at some of the extreme high MPG home brews that are made from aluminum and the builders want 25k for something that is gocart like.
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:53 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Here's an exhaustive list of what to check for when buying a G1 Insight, in addition to looking at the oil, checking the brake pads, and kicking the tires:

-Northern cars can get rust on the fuel and brake lines, especially right at the 90° turn at the bottom of the engine bay. This can be a big deal as I understand, but mine lived in the south and has new looking lines. Northern cars are also prone to the bolts on the catalytic converters rusting into a blob, but this is only an issue if you ever need to pull it off.

-They're prone to a very small roof leak above the passenger B pillar, but it's not a big deal. It won't get the carpet wet or mold, but often this will cause some corrosion in a wire behind the inner trim, and manifest as the rear hatch quiting locking and unlocking with either the FOB or electric door locks. This wiring problem can be fixed in 10 minutes with a toothbrush and some dielectric grease. You can see the fix in my build thread.

-All of the door lock actuators are kinda flimsy and prone to going out. Luckily, RockAuto has excellent replacements for <$25 and they're not hard to replace. You can still lock and unlock the doors with the key, but this issue will cause the FOB to not work. You can also see the fix for this in my build thread.

-3rd to 2nd gear downshift is prone to grinding, and moreso when the transmission is fully warmed up. It's not from from the synchros going out, but from a design flaw in the transmission. I haven't done it and only have a vague idea of why it happens, but it can be fixed by removing some tabs. Mine grinds if I don't double clutch in 3rd to 2nd downshift, or use push it slightly against first gear before dropping it into 2nd, and I live with it because double clutching isn't difficult and pulling the transmission is. Major bonus points for the car if it doesn't have this downshift grind.

-It's a 3 cylinder and vibrates a lot. Honda used soft engine mounts to mitigate this, but they don't last, and most Insights will need the rear mount replaced once in the life of the car. It's around a $90 part, but it's extremely accessible and easy to replace. This is detailed in my thread. Some people fix this by putting a bunch of caulk or other compound in the mount instead, but will suffer from greater vibration over the stock mount. If you get one and want a broken mount to play with, I'll send you the one I replaced.

-The EGR passages and valve will probably need to be cleaned once in the lifetime of the car. This can be done in about 20-30 minutes and costs nothing. If the car stutters and bucks when entering lean burn, this is probably your culprit. Mine didn't need it yet, but I cleaned it out anyway and there was definitely some crud building up. Details are in my build thread.

-An included grid charger can add value to the car, and indicate the owner was mechanically inclined and cared about the car. Most weak batteries gain back a lot of their lost capacity with a 36 hour balance on a grid charger. Aftermarket they cost about $200, but I built mine for ~$30 I think? If you're not handy with electronics, you might ask to borrow one from a member here or purchase your own. You can see details for how to build and install a grid charger in my build thread.

-The driver window switch has a cheap plastic piece in it that is prone to failure, and will cause the switch not to return to center automatically. To replace the switch with a factory piece it's around $200, but you can 3d print a replacement for about $3 if this afflicts your car. The links to what you need can be found in my build thread.

-The oil pan is made of magnesium and is easy to strip. A lot of Insight owners opt to install a Fumoto valve rather than risk some idiot at Jiffy Lube stripping out their absurdly expensive oil pan. Take a glance and make sure the stock plug is in place, or a Fumoto valve.

-If the rear engine mount deteriorates, increased movement of the engine can damage one of the many ground straps on the engine. I'm not sure how this manifests, but I found one strap on mine slightly frayed, and repaired it with some solder. You can also use any piece of wire for this, if you so choose.

-Check to see if all of the stock underbelly panels are in place. One of mine was damaged, and one was missing. These don't really have very much of an aero penalty if they're missing or damaged, but I made replacements anyway.

-It should be obvious, but check that the rear wheel skirts are not missing. They're expensive.

-Check to make sure the IMA light isn't on. This indicates a weak battery. A grid charge can restore it to some degree, but if the light was already on I'd probably pass on the car, unless it's a 2006 (and thus still under warranty).

-Check what tires are on the car. Bridgestone Ecopias or Dunlop Enasaves are great tires, but they trade a bit of gas mileage for improved ride and reduced road noise over the stock Potenza RE92's. I'd hassle the owner if the tires on the car weren't one of these three, as low rolling resistance tires make a TREMENDOUS difference in fuel economy. Stock size is 165/65r14.

-Check to see what the lifetime fuel economy is on the car. This can be found on the same display as the car's total miles. If it's below 55-60mpg on a 5MT, it was probably driven pretty aggressively. An Insight in good repair can get 70mpg with ZERO effort, and considerably more than that on individual trips. I regularly see trips to and from work in excess of 100mpg if the weather is good.


Aaand that's about it. These cars are not prone to any major mechanical problems, and even with everything above wrong, you can still get 70+mpg, but there are some little details that commonly crop up in a 15 year old car with 150,000+ miles.

EDIT: You might find this link extremely informative: InsightCentral.net - Interactive Encyclopedia

Last edited by Ecky; 10-12-2015 at 09:03 PM..
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:29 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Ecky, I'm just saying, you cannot get 70mpg with no effort. It takes a lot of effort to get 70+. I drive average and I get 65-68, but that's without A/C and avoiding short trips. With A/C I can get about 55-60 at 70mph. 50-55mpg lifetime (which can be reset anyway) is good, anything under 50 and the car was probably driven 75+ on the freeway with the wrong tires, or all city driving with A/C and wrong tires.

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